Time for HA, finally. Thinking Insteon. Mulling this for 20 years. What is best?

The fellow who calls himself Doug is not among them.

looks like rlb wants to draw ASA in or he wouldn't keep the cheap shots up.

nor are you

I'm fairly sure that people are able to make up their own minds regarding me, but whether I'm reasonable or not isn't the point. The point is that Bill has chosen to disparage a whole group of people based on the actions of a few. That's indefensible and any reasonable or reasoning person would recognise it as such regardless of their own person animosity towards me.

Doug

You said there were people who do not post derogatory comments about others. You are not among them.

No, he didn't. He chose to accurately describe ASA as a cesspool. I can call a certain low income housing project a disgusting mess without implying that everyone who lives there is disgusting or even messy. If enough of the residents make it a disgusting mess then that is what it is. One reason why most people in CHA believe that ASA is a cesspool is that the vast majority of posts here from ASA regulars are personal attacks. You and your pals have chosen to try to destroy this newsgroup the way you have ASA.

You are not among them.

And neither are you.

a certain low income housing project a disgusting

messy. If enough of the residents make it a disgusting

ASA is a cesspool is that the vast majority of posts

try to destroy this newsgroup the way you have ASA.

Robert L Bass wrote (in ASA):

To which Frank (Olson) responded:

Really? How so? When you decided to go "real life" with Graham and launch a personal attack in which you *lied* and deliberately misrepresented certain facts, Graham copied me with everything. Up to that point I figured that Groupie Muderator and "his pals" were the scum of the earth. You beat 'em all by a country mile. You've taken "scum" to new "lows". To falsely accuse someone in such a manner has got to be the most malicious and nasty thing I've ever seen anyone do.

You've extolled the virtues of Tom "coming clean" with the lies he's said about you. You've told all manner of lies about me (and others). You've never been able to substantiate any of it and you're never going to "come clean" either. To do so would seriously compromise your reputation, and the whole "innocent-poor-little-old-me-defender-of-the-DIY" act would unravel and you would be revealed for the fraud you are. I've seen the "apologies" you've published to Mike, Jim, and others over the years. They're as phony as you are. Jim's right. You have to ask for forgiveness to receive it. It's doubtful you'll ever be able to travel that road for reasons I've already mentioned above. You "say" you're not "angry" with anyone here but you're draggin' a chain of lies around a mile long and every link is forged with your hatred (watch "A Christmas Carol" sometime). You tell Graham he needs "mental counseling" and that this Newsgroup is a "hang-out for misfits". Have a good long look in the mirror, Bass. How "low" can you go?

The above was posted January 8th. I don't expect (nor anticipate) a response (from Robert) but I thought it important for the participants here to get the full picture and not just the one coloured with Robert's rather one sided and self-serving phraseology. The "personal attacks" here will continue as long as Bass decides they will.

If that's the case then you will have no problem pointing out the posts in CHA where I have tried to destroy this group. Obviously you can't because they don't exist other than in your imagination. You seem to think that if you repeat the same tired lies about me often enough that they will become facts, they won't, you may get a few or even a lot of people to believe you, but that's not the same thing.

Its clear from your response to my post to Bill that you harbour personal animosity towards me, despite the fact that my post made no mention of you.

My advice to you is to either ignore me, or at least leave out the personal slurs and I will return the favour, there is no reason for us to become involved in a pissing match in this group.

Doug

Dude, on any given day a.s.a is a cesspool. Sure, it's disparaging to the group, deservedly so. But hey, that groups seems to like it that way. Just keep it outta here.

My request to not crosspost has nothing to do with you, so get over yourself. And apologize? You must me kidding.

Robert, Thanks, My experience communicating with ELK support last year was certainly positive and supports your comments. Maybe I'll send them another question and see what the results are. I tried this with HAI and got a response containing the text from their website indicating they did not provide any DIY support, and to go to my dealer. I thought I would give it a try, so found Smart Home listed on the HAI site as a dealer for DIY users. On the Smart Home site I then found a statement indicating that for HAI products, that I should contact the manufacturer for all technical support. "Catch-22 anyone". That killed HAI as an option.

Robert L Bass wrote:

ing dealers of the sort found in ASA. You may have noticed

ard DIY. The notice also gives ELK a legitimate out should

ustomers to seek help through the dealer that sold them the

I don't know something I make a 3-way call and let ELK

en for clients needing tech support from ELK just as I do

w of has ever been charged for ELK tech support.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>

The problem with that from my perspective is many DIY end users will be left out in the dcold by HAI. ELK has never done that.

I have nothing against Smart Home. They're a competitor. I usually beat their prices but they spend a fortune on advertising so they're still the big dog on the street.

When there is an option between buying from a dealer/distributor and directly from the maker/manufacturer, I tend to opt for the direct purchase even, as is usually the case, it costs a nickel more. Not foolproof, but this typically eliminates the Catch-22 unless the company is dysfunctional for some reason.

With the respect to Elk M1G support, I registered the serial number of my unit and _then_ asked detailed questions about the interface coding and received detailed, informative answers from someone whose name I recognized and who was apparently competent and involved with the product.

But nothing quite beats having the creator and owner of a product in the front line of support even if it is only from time to time. BruceR's experience with J.D.S. at JDS is a good example. Bill Nelson's participation in the CyberHouse forums/discussion is/was another. Having the author report back that "It works [this way] because [I did this] in order to [reason]" can be invaluable -- especially when s/he is exceptionally competent. (Not to turn anyone's ears red, but that's one of CQS's charms, as it were ;-) Knowing _why_ things work they way they do helps greatly in understanding what they do ... The 'why' is now mostly inaccessible for commercial software at the user/retail level. For some/most software, it simply to complicated and(or) convoluted, or legacy-constrained. Witness HomeSeer, which has origins as an overweight, X-10-entric application -- and still seems one at the level of the user interface.

... Marc Marc_F_hult

Robert's silence speaks volumes.

Wow, there's an understatment. The shift to 2.0 has not gone smoothly.

No, more like your own posts will let the readers draw the same opinion.

I could honestly care less about you and certainly don't have any personal animosities toward you as a person. So stop trying to make yourself more important that the situation dictates.

As in "get over yourself".

What, threats now? And this helps c.h.a, how?

You seem somewhat confused, you are now replying to comments I made to RLB, not to you. I certainly never said you have any animosity towards me, and I'm not quite sure where you come up with the absurd idea that I have made threats to you, RLB, CHA or anyone else for that matter.

I made a single comment to you, that in my opinion you are wrong to tar everyone with the same brush, you disagree, that's fine, so why do you now want to make more of it than is necessary ?.

You should probably re read the thread and take your own advice I.E. "stop trying to make yourself more important that the situation dictates. As in "get over yourself".."

Doug

out in the dcold by HAI. ELK has never done that.

No, they haven't. They did release their M-1 Gold before it was UL Listed though. How many systems did you sell in that time that incorporated heat or smoke alarms or did you make your customers aware that they couldn't use the equipment to monitor for "fire"? How many of your "DIYer's" do you think would heed that advice? Do you provide a replacement board for those customers that want to option having a fire detection system? Perhaps that's something you should consider doing (I would even suggest that it's the *responsible* thing to do). It would also mitigate any legal proceedings that might derive from your "gross negligence in providing a product that wasn't properly listed for the purpose".