Ah yes. You explained this before. Sorry. So in this usage, a RoZetta + Stargate is the approximate equivalent of an Elk M1G with its native INSTEON interface in firmware.
The Elk M1G will also interface with X-10 RF interface through a WGL or other receiver with RS-232 output so one can use X10 wireless (RF) protocol with INSTEON (native mode) without the use of a 24x7 HA PC or X-10 Power Line Control protocol. I take it that this is another use to which the RoZetta might be put in the absence of an Elk M1G or 24x7 HA PC running (eg) HomeSeer.
I replaced all of my X-10 modules with Insteon but am still using them in X-10 mode to get an idea of how badly they affect X-10 signal strength. The Insteon's configured as X-10 exhibit less reliability (not terribly bad but noticibly less robust) than the pure X-10 modules. As I was using all two-way modules before, I don't think this can all be attributed to the Insteon modules being two-way. I think it means they have less sensitivity despite the specs which indicate just the opposite.
Of course, I'm not talking about a lot of units. I have one light in each room that is automated. My spinal cord injury has robbed me of the ability to see in the dark (My first neurosurgeon told me long ago, "You see in the dark with your feet.") so I need to be able to turn lights on ahead of and off behind me using RF remotes.
Once I get roZetta to bed, I'll switch everything to Insteon so I'll be able to compare the reliability of pure Insteon with both pure X-10 and Insteon configured as X-10.
I'm starting out with that Essential Timer free software, since it appears to be well integrated with the Powerlink standalone controller. I have a pc ready to use, and hope to get a stronger GUI, with some sort of programming and intelligence capabilities.
Expand on that if you would. I have an Elk M1G but am not wedded to it yet because aren't many (any?) things I can do with it that I can't do in another way. Stargate was supported by CyberHouse but I never ventured there. The primary need for a PC at this point would seem to be for video storage and processing.
OK. But the Elk M1G doesn't need a PC do run rules for and interact and control INSTEON, Hardwired lighting eg Centralite, X-10 RF, Security, voice alerts, voice dialer, 2-way listen-in, thermostats, IR, Wireless and wired analog inputs and General purpose digital inputs and outputs, communicate over RS-232 or RS-485 or ethernet , or touch screen or control pads and so on -- right? (Might you thinking of the Elk Magic Modules that are akin to the Ocelot? That's not what I am referring to.)
An Elk M1G, can do most if not all of that --leastwise my manual would leave me to believe so ;-)
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It can call a list of up to eight numbers and send DTMF tone signals based on event (say, from a motion detector), so if you can set up your phone forwarding by dialing a number and pressing keys, it can likely do that too. This is standard with no add-ons.
I'm not trying to convince you to do anything different. I'm simply wondering about the capabilities of various HA 'panels' now that I've taken the conceptual plunge and have begun investing time in scoping them out.
Indeed. I am admittedly not as well versed in Stargate as ELK (which I sell online) but my impression is that Stargate has less input capability, less output capability, fewer lighting control protocol options and less analog options than the ELK-M1G.
I haven't tried programming an Elk, but when I suggested that I might try one, a number of people in the Stargate group said that the progamming complexity available in Stargate isn't available on the Elk panel. The Stargate has nested if/then/else options, timer & delays, flags, macros - just about any type of event can be programmed. It has digital and analog inputs and relay outputs, all expandable, with remote relay boards connected via RS485. There is an intercom line, voice mail, auto attendant, caller ID recognition and touch tone control. There is an IP server for remote operation and several RS 485 keypads available. The PDA interface is very handy too. There is serial integration to the Caddyx security panels too.
I'm sure that the Elk panel has its benefits too and if I were just making the choice today I would look at both very carefully - particularly since Stargate no longer offers the IVR board!
Likewise I haven't tried programming a Stargate so I can't offer you a point for point comparison. However, the ELK-M1G is a very capable HA controller and IMO deserves serious consideration.
The ELK-M1G has numerous timers, complex "IF THEN" (they call it "WHENEVER"), flags, etc., and can be programmed to do just about anytthing you can think of as an HA controller. It is also a UL listed residential alarm control panel, something insurers like.
The ELK-M1G has all of the above but more of them than the Stargate.
ELK has touch tone control via internal and external phones though it is not an intercom or phone system. It can also be controlled via RS-232, RF, several ELK keypads, a touchscreen and TCP/IP using any browser. The TCP/IP board provides web support.
Unlike Stargate, the ELK-M1G is a security controller. It integrates with GE Security (used to be called Caddx) transmitters. Any of it's up to 16 to 205 zones (sensing circuits) can be digital or analog. There are 13 onboard outputs, also expandable up to 205 outputs. The ELK system supports up to 8 serial ports.
ELK's lighting control is compatible with Advanced Control Technologies, Inc. (ACT), Z-Wave, Centralite, Lighting Control Products. Electronic Design Technology (EDT), Insteon, Leviton, Lightolier, Lutron RadioRA, On-Q Home (ALC) and Powerline Control Systems (PCS), Simply Automated (UPB).
The ELK-M1G also interfaces with RCS, Aprilaire, and HAI communicating thermostats.
Who knows? You might even have chosen the ELK over the Stargate. Since I'm an ELK Products dealer and not a Stargate dealer I'm naturally more inclined to use the ELK, but it is what I've chosen for my own home. As soon as I can climb ladders again I intend to install the M1G along with Z-Wave lighting controls. I'll be posting periodic reports on the project.
Agreed! The Elk does seem very capable and choosing between the two would be difficult. Indeed, if the schedule can be programmed to the same level of sophistication as the Stargate, I would say it looks like the current winner.
I don't know about the folks that make Stargate (though they seemed very pleasant and helpful the few times I've ever spoken to them. ELK has a great attitude toward dealers and end users. They're one of the few manufacturers in the trade that will actually let a user talk to their engineering staff. As a dealer I've had several occasions to request modifications and additions to the ELK-M1G. I and several other dealers asked for a Z-Wave transceiver. Done. One of my clients asked for help modifying a lighting protocol. Done.
In all fairness, as a dealer I'm not exactly unbiased. I sell a lot of M1 Gold systems, probably more than most independent alarm dealers. But it appears ELK is just as helpful to smaller accounts.
I failed to mention another ELK feature in my earlier posts which I believe makes the ELK-M1G stand out above many competing products. With most HA systems when there's a new firmware release the end user has to go to his dealer (assuming he even knows there's a new version), pay for a service call and purchase a replacement chipset. If the dealer is anything like the average alarm company, the cost can easily top $200. ELK allows dealers and users to download new firmware at no charge. DIY customers can get email notification and are also given access to all the "back office" documentation that many alarm manufacturers reserve for dealers on password protected websites. For a number of my customers this has been a deal maker when choosing between ELK and HAI (another good quality HA maker).
Stargate offers the same type of thing. Firmware is always free and posted on their site. Tech support is excellent. In fact, most of the time it's provided by Jeff Stein himself, the owner of JDS Technologies, the manufacturer of Stargate. He also frequents the Stargate forum on Yahoo providing helpful guidance as needed. Knowing him for the 13 years I've used his product we've become good friends as he has with many of his customers.
1eGdnQzUxsOsfwLYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com... . ELK allows dealers and users to download new firmware at no charge. DIY customers can get
what's the use of hiding them behind password protect web page anyways?
you give the password and username all over the net!
Robbert, Originally I was strongly leaning toward Elk based on their willingness to communicate directly with DIY users. I recently went to their site to gather some additional information, and was very disappointed to read their support information which clearly indicated that technical support to non dealers was on a fee based basis only. This would seem to contradict your comments. I have been reconsidering my choice as a result of this policy. If this is indeed not the case, then you should communicate to them that their website is communicating the wrong attitude and could be losing them customers as a result. I really need to get this clarified before making my decision.
Dennis Raher
Robert L Bass wrote:
pleasant and helpful the few times I've ever spoken to
e of the few manufacturers in the trade that will actually
occasions to request modifications and additions to the
ne. One of my clients asked for help modifying a lighting
1 Gold systems, probably more than most independent alarm
ve makes the ELK-M1G stand out above many competing
nd user has to go to his dealer (assuming he even knows
chipset. If the dealer is anything like the average alarm
ownload new firmware at no charge. DIY customers can get
umentation that many alarm manufacturers reserve for
s has been a deal maker when choosing between ELK and HAI
I checked on that. I suspect the notice was put there to placate installing dealers of the sort found in ASA. You may have noticed there's a lot of hostility on the part of some "professional" dealers toward DIY. The notice also gives ELK a legitimate out should someone who hasn't a clue try to spend 3 hours on the phone with them.
ELK has never charged any of my clients for tech support. They do want customers to seek help through the dealer that sold them the product. I usually can answer any questions my DIY customers have. When I don't know something I make a 3-way call and let ELK answer. Then my client knows and so do I for the next customer.
No matter how this plays out long term I will of course act as a go between for clients needing tech support from ELK just as I do with every other manufacturer we carry. To be clear though, no one I know of has ever been charged for ELK tech support.
Robbert, Originally I was strongly leaning toward Elk based on their willingness to communicate directly with DIY users. I recently went to their site to gather some additional information, and was very disappointed to read their support information which clearly indicated that technical support to non dealers was on a fee based basis only. This would seem to contradict your comments. I have been reconsidering my choice as a result of this policy. If this is indeed not the case, then you should communicate to them that their website is communicating the wrong attitude and could be losing them customers as a result. I really need to get this clarified before making my decision.
If you think they're the only company that plays this game, you're wrong. Plenty of vendors will post they have no support for DIY but do so anyway. There are a select few that absolutely refuse DIY support and go out of their way to do so (crestron comes to mind). I'd lean more toward the ELK box and wouldn't let text on a website dissuade me.
And PLEASE, do not cross-post to the a.s.a newsgroup. Leave that cesspool out of the loop.
typical salesman talk. please mr customer, don't heed the wording of the contract, just believe what I tell you [till you sign and I get your money, then your on your own].
didn't say it was. just black and white. see it all the time on usenet where some homoaner is comlaining that they didn't get what the salesman said they'd get. What's in black and white is what a prudent customer goes by NOT the words of the salesman. But you may be different.
depends on whose it is
Really?
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this guy is trustworthy?
I'm not selling anything so you don't have to trust me. Just pointing out the obvious. I sure would't trust what you have to say with comments like those, if you truly believe them. Or maybe your selling stuff here too. birds of a feather eh.
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