Refrigerator monitor ideas?

mm-hmm. :^)

Too bad they didn't include peak current in the Kill-A-Watt. Would be quite handy for those planning for generator loads who don't have a tong meter.

There is a very subtle difference though and your "straw man" argument doesn't wash. Bass has never been able to prove I've lied about anything. A gentleman in the other Newsgroup has actually seen the movie and the pictures I have of the flight in question. He's often been a passenger on weekend jaunts across the water in a C-185 on amphib floats I frequently fly.

Doug

No actually, it's not, and you're wrong. The 737-200 (Palm 90) *never* had "deice boots", Bass. The "200" series always used bleed air from the engine compressors as part of the wing anti-ice system. Post the link to the "NTSB report and other online docs" that refer to "deice boots", Bass.

Nope. You're lying (again). I never "claimed" to have "snap-rolled" a

737. I was *in* one that went inverted, though, but I wasn't anywhere near the cockpit.

I figure it's your "credibility" that's in question here. Considering you're the one that sold non-UL Listed products and pirated software. For shame. And for what?

Correct. The original information I had was from an article which referred to the NTSB report. Further checking indicates the airplane did have engine de-icing though it was not used. That was (as I stated) one of the causes of the crash.

"The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of this accident was the flight crew's failure to use engine anti-ice during ground operation and takeoff, their decision to take off with snow/ice on the airfoil surfaces of the aircraft, and the captain's failure to reject the takeoff during the early stage when his attention was called to anomalous engine instrument readings. Contributing to the accident were the prolonged ground delay between deicing and the receipt of ATC takeoff clearance during which the airplane was exposed to continual precipitation, the known inherent pitchup characteristics of the B-737 aircraft when the leading edge is contaminated with even small amounts of snow or ice, and the limited experience of the flightcrew in jet transport winter operations."

Your story changes each time you get caught bullfranking. The first version had you seated and a cameraman standing. You claimed the jet flipped so fast that he soiled his pants. The fact is that there's no way on earth that Boeing lent some morons an airliner to do anything so stupid. There's also no way that you would have survived.

The entire story was a lie. No one in his right mind (that leaves Doug and all of your sock puppets out) believes that Boeing would lend a new 737 to some insurance claims adjuster to "test their theory" about a disaster by trying to replicate it in the air. Come on, Olson. Think about how ridiculous you sound.

I appreciate you wading through to at least add your input. I found it quite disappointing that a long-time poster would feed, clothe and house the trolls. Another one rides the twitlist bus, I guess.

Exactly. But it turned out to be more complicated. In detailing the mechanics of the condensate drain we have concluded (at least I have) that there are two distinct causes of "coil freeze." The most common two are open doors or clogged drain pathways.

At first, I just wanted to detect just clogged drain tubes but discussion indicates I should also "trap" open doors. The issue now is what kind of simple sensor(s) can detect a coil freeze caused by either event?

The problem * may* lie in the fact that before an ice dam forms, the flow is reduced but not completely abated. The moisture sensor on the floor would probably lag the coil freeze-up by so much time it would not be useful as a preventative measure.

Another problem with the moisture sensors is that a coil freeze from an open door causes refrigerators to whizz on the floor. The condensate flow triples in this case as the unit runs 24/7, but the drain tube is free and the floor pan overflows. The moisture sensor is deliriously happy. (-:

It would probably make a good tertiary sensor and might provide useful "normal operation pattern" information if I could log it easily. It would be nice to know exactly what readings precede a "coil freeze-up." At some point during an "open door" event the coil seems to freeze solid, even with a clear drain tube. I really want to know when the coils are forming a skin of ice that can't be removed by the defrost coils. That's kind of tricky.

-- Bobby G.

The troll is the individual who posts comments in a deliberate attempt to provoke flames, not the people who respond.

In this case it was RLB who introduced the snap-rolled 737 comment for no other purpose than to stir the pot. He didn't feed, clothe or house the trolls, he is the troll, the fact that he is a long time poster doesn't alter that fact.

Troll- As a verb, to post controversial or provocative messages in a deliberate attempt to provoke flames

Doug

.

How about a dirt cheap solution; string. Thread a string from the freezer to the drain pan andup to where you can get to it. The string has a small knot and a big knot. When you pull the string the small knot in the freezer pulls all the way down the drain tube and clears it and the big knot stops the string from coming out. Then open the freezer and pull the string back until the small knot is back inside the freezer. Do it once a month or so as PM.

Committees of Correspondence Web page:

Tong meter?

Ah! Clamp meter! I have one of those, maybe it even does peak load. I mainly got it to examine amp draw at the circuit panel, which it's great at. I know it's got a reading lock, otherwise I'd probably be dead from having to wiggle around looking at the readings. When I dig it up, I'll see if it can tell me the startup draw of the Westinghouse.

I guess it *does* look like a pair of tongs. And no tradesman would ever say two syllables for a tool when one would do! (-:

-- Bobby G.

Not a bad idea, Nick, and one I had seriously considered at first. But the design of the drain line is actually quite more ingenious than I had realized. It's got what amounts to a built-in sedimentation tray (a little water has to build up in the connector piece before it flows out the drain tube). You can see that it works because that section of the "shuttle" connector gets *very* cruddy at the bottom but the tube itself stays clear.

They also put a small vertical tab right before the connector empties into the drain tube that catches hair and thready sorts of debris. It's always at this point a clog builds up. If I accelerate the inspection schedule, I can usually catch it before it clogs completely.

I'd just like some kind of heads up that it's becoming blocked. In the summer time, when I switch the hose from evaporator floor pan to floor drain I usually give the drain tube a power wash by inserting some surgical tubing that fits snugly inside the drain tube connector attached to a soda bottle. One squeeze usually blows out any nasties.

This year I got caught flatfooted by the increased number of shedding rescued puppies my wife is caring for. The airborne contaminant load went through the roof (and into the drain tube, too)! There isn't very good airflow in that part of the basement. That's great when there's dog stink involved, not so great for getting air to the filter furnace for dust scrubbing.

-- Bobby G.

Nah, he used a 'joking' face, and I smiled when I read it. I was just being a know-it-all!

the NTSB report.

[Sound of furious back-pedaling] Unfortunately there *isn't* an article which refers to the NTSB report that would include a reference to "deice boots" on a Boeing 737-200. Since you're "backpedaling" anyway why not admit you lied to cover up your mistake?

stated) one of the causes of the crash.

had you seated and a cameraman standing. You claimed

way on earth that Boeing lent some morons an airliner

Where did I ever say the cameraman was "standing"? And where has my story "changed"? I told you from the first I went along for the ride as an "observer" in the main cabin (nowhere near the cockpit).

Says the biggest liar in USENET.

believes that Boeing would

a disaster by trying to replicate it in the air. Come

Where did I say they ever "lent a new 737 to some insurance claims adjuster"? Why do you insist on "twisting" the facts when they're so easy to Google? I honestly can't understand you, Bass. You're some "piece of work"...

I missed the moment to get an accurate 24 hour assessment but that's OK. I want to run the test again under more normal circumstances. There's been a lot more door opening than usual and I've been running a space heater down there because it's so cold outside (16F). Even so, Bill K. may be right. This box *sucks* up the juice! Fortunately, its location in the basement means a lot of that electricity, as Dan noted, is heating the house, so the payback equations are muddied. When I switch to the floor drain in the summer, it also acts as a dehumidifier, so the equations there are not straightforward, either.

I've been doing some research and came across a site that had some interesting information about power use:

********************************************************************* Keep That Kitchen Cool

A recent study in Rochester, N.Y., revealed the most reliable way to reduce an existing refrigerator's energy use. In the study, the kitchen temperature was monitored every 30 minutes (along with the energy use) in 22 homes. The results were surprisingly consistent: changes in kitchen temperatures explained almost all of the changes in the refrigerators' energy use during the eight-month monitoring period (see Figure 2).

Individual refrigerators were very sensitive to kitchen temperatures. Many experienced a doubling in energy use when the temperature rose from 65deg.F to 80deg.F. Refrigerators rarely achieved their labeled consumptions until the kitchen temperature rose above 80deg.F (see Figure 3). -- Alan Meier

*********************************************************************

-- Bobby G.

Shoot the Dog and the problem is solved....

Filter Smilter

NEVER underestimate the power of panyhose Seriously, I use them as a filter on the bottom front of my 'fridge and almost no dust bunnies live in my coils... some gets through but I clean it every year when I change the smoke detector bats. I use a sock over the output hose of the washer to keep the aquatic bunnies out of my greywater plumbing too...

A tablesppon of canola oil in my cats food every two weeks or so keeps their dander down and their fur soft and (more imporantly) attached

I know these are LOW tech ideas but hey.. I'm the guy who goes to his mothers to boil water.

Beamer

Bobby,

So what do you report to us as the average consumption?

(The closest thing I found in this thread to "hypothetical figures bandied about" was your estimate of 112 watts x 1/10th duty cycle =~ 12 watts average. Were you off by 20-fold ? 0r ?

The study I cited

Dave was apparently using to disparage folks that actually measure things and understand what they measure ("bureaucrats and ivory tower academics") was a study of actual measurements of actual older refrigerators in actual use in the service area of the metro Cincinnati utility that provided electricity for the fridge in Dave's house.

I found the title of the study à propos from several perspectives: "Low-Income Refrigerator Replacement -- Selecting the Worst of the Worst" . )

... Marc Marc_F_Hult