Does anyone have a way to control the powerlinc usb api using python on cygwin? python on linux? Perl or any other scripting language on windows? Smarthome doesnt seem eager to supply the apis for the powerlinc usb i just bought.
Thanks a lot for your help,
Yeah, Smarthome wants you to shell out $$ for dev kits and sign your life away. To date, I'm not aware of any open interface to the USB api, but Neil Cherry has an experimental linux driver for the RS232 api and is working on USB. See
hmmm ... after all the negative comments in this newsgroup, I decided to look at the offerings.
For $99 one gets:
INSTEON User & Reference Guide PowerLinc V2 USB LampLinc V2 Email support certificate INSTEON developer web-site username and password and the email of a an individual, responsive technical individual(!)
Is it expected that the company should give away two pieces of hardware (the interface and the receive) and the documentation and the support for free?
"and sign your life away"?
The agreement requires a developer who wants to sell products and make money with INSTEON technology has to have the device reviewed to assure that it works. This QA/QC 101.
Seems to me this is gratuitous, group grousing.
... Marc Marc_F_Hult
You probably bought the wrong Powerlinc. They sell the 1132U for $38 or $70 depending on whether you buy it with or without their software.
- USB". The development kit also includes a LampLinc V2 as well as the documentation needed to write your own software and sells for $99.
There are some severe restrictions in the Insteon SDK license. Licensees are prohibited from ever disclosing anything about the Insteon SDK including the results of tests.
The Kit and all related information are confidential and proprietary to SMARTHOME. You agree not to disclose any information relating to the Kit (including without limitation the results of use or testing) to any third party without SMARTHOME?s prior written permission.
They also retain the sole right to decide whether any product developed by licensees can be sold.
You acknowledge and agree that the distribution and commercialization of any INSTEON labeled compatible applications and products developed by you using the Kit will be subject to (i) successful completion by you of SMARTHOME's designated authentication and compatibility testing processes and (ii) approval by SMARTHOME.
Other organizations have certification programs but do not prevent non-certified products from being sold as "compatible".
Smarthome has been inconsistent. They published the protocol for the initial (TTL & serial) version of the Powerlinc but only offered the protocol for later versions to "qualified" developers. The Insteon SDK is reasonably priced and includes the necessary documentation and is available to anyone who is willing to spend $99 and be subject to the license.
Neil Cherry and others have proceeded based on verbal assurances from people at Smarthome. I would suggest getting it in writing as the terms of the license stipulate.
Both the USB and RS232 entry level developer ("Level 1 membership" ) kits are out of stock. Smarthome was supposed to get more last October 21 but I am waiting still. The cost of the two hardware components (USB version) separately is $90 so effectively one receives the development kit for $10.
I haven't inquired about the $250 ("Level 2") and $2000 ("Level 3") membership levels for obvious reasons although apparently there are some benefits:
" Level two and three memberships are able to influence the direction, development and marketing of INSTEON. " as stated in
Marc Marc_F_Hult
If you sign the agreement, you sign away the right to determine whether you can sell your product. See Dave H's many threads on this matter. I wouldn't bet my company on Insteon.
Insteon is not nearly as open as I would like. I'd like to see Insteon as open as UPB.
- Mark.
Right. And one also has to agree to abide by provisions controlling "proliferation activities prohibited by the US Government such as chemical, biological, nuclear or missile technology." As if someone would use X-10/Insteon to send off a nuclear-tipped missile ;-)
Anyone who is "betting his company" based on the $10 license agreement ($99 package cost -$90 of hardware) probably isn't betting very much or very wisely.
This "Level 1" is for hobbyists and dilettantes like me and perhaps others in this newsgroup. Since I would not engage in "distribution or commercialization", most of the onerous parts of the wouldn't apply to me.
There are $250 ("Level 2") and $2000 ("Level 3") and the ever-present option of entering into a different agreement for folks that are seriously interested in creating a commercial product for sale.
The disadvantages of the conditions in the $10 agreement have been previously discussed in this newsgroup, but the advantages haven't and there are several important ones in my opinion including the quality assurance that I alluded to before. There are roughly parallel hoops one has to jump through with UL (and CSA and CE) which is _also_ effectively a prerequisite for "distribution and commercialization" of a Insteon powerline device in US (and Canada and Europe). Except that with UL, there is no provision for opting out or striking a separate deal (we hope ;-)
In any case, if one doesn't like the agreement, one is free to negotiate a different arrangement if, having invested $10, one thinks that one wants to bet one's company ( or -- gasp!) $250 on Insteon.
I'm not the betting type and since I don't 'do' commercialization of home automation of powerline devices (environmental monitoring is a different matter), the conditions you refer to are irrelevant to my situation.
FWIW, for what it's worth, my perspective on these things has moved a great deal over the decades. When spreadsheets first came out, I refused to use them for all but trivial uses because they were proprietary and the underlying code not available. No FORTRAN source code, no resulting scientific publication. How far we've come ;-)
Mis dos centavos ... Marc
"John" wrote in news:1130874436.839563.264890 @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
If you are willing to have a 3-rd party application running and use windows, you can use girder
Note that the requirement for SmartHome "blessing" of your app only applies if you use the Insteon name or logo - you're free to distribute anything you want if you don't do that. That's how Neil Cherry was able to publish his unix-based stuff, after initially getting off on the wrong foot. This seems to imply that you can release software that talks to "SmartHome's new PLC protocol" (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) without having to submit it to SmartHome for approval.
- Dennis Brothers
[snip]
"SmartHome's new PLC protocol" might work for a few weeks until they introduce their next "new PLC protocol" but it's not likely to result in many sales.
Since Neil's Linux driver is not a commercial product, he might use "Insteon compatible" without violating the license but he's still forbidden to divulge any information about the SDK.
Note also that even if your product passes all their tests, they can still prevent you from selling it if they wish. I would not advise spending time, effort, and money developing a product that yhey can arbitrarily block. IIRC, they didn't think the Charmed Quark developer was "qualified" to develop for their earlier USB Powerlinc.
If you reverse engineer the protocol and never buy the kit you can say your product is "Insteon compatible" (with a disclaimer that Insteon is a Smarthome trademarked term) without having to submit it to SmartHome for approval. You can also say anything you want about test results.
Smarthome can set whatever terms they wish. I'm merely pointing out that their terms are quite restrictive. I like Insteon and went to considerable effort to test it and let others know I think it's worth consideration
It's rather sad that Insteon is getting more press on how stupid their license structure is than their products. Sadly, more than a few products have failed to gain traction by being this way.
They seem to be gaining adequate traction.
But there seem to be several classes of "devel>It's rather sad that Insteon is getting more press on how stupid their
In the Linux world, there's also the Wish/x10dev project:
Which is what I wrote yesterday -- See above.
INSTEON's press release that I cited previously states that
"[L]evel two and three memberships are able to influence the direction, development and marketing of INSTEON"
which suggests that they are not much swayed by folks that only buy the Level one ($10) development kit, much less by those that haven't agreed to any level, but are just complaining ;-)
... Marc Marc_F_Hult
I will have a look at the girder software. Will call them on monday about more information. Wish this kind of a software was freeware thou :) Shouldnt be hard to send and recieve x10 signals using powerlinc usb...I guess I wont buy from smarthome ever again :)
Thanks,
Girder used to be freeware (v 2.x I think). 3.x was not very expensive but they keep upping the price. I haven't bought v4 but I think v3 is included with that if you do buy it. I agree that someone should port the wish project stuff (mentioned above) to windows...
I have a little tool I wrote to encode/decode extended x10 messages using Girder if you choose to go with that.
"John" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
I tried to install the powerlinc usb adaptor plugin on girder's beta that is freely available for download...First complaint was lua.dll missing, I got a copy from the web, but then it complained about something else. It never showed the powerlinc USB plugin till now.
Anyone has ever made girder work with powerlinc?
Thanks a lot for your help,
I am currently using girder version 3.3.9b with the USB powerlinc. You can use LUA scripting frmo within girder to send commands. I don't think the version 4 plugin works correctly but I don't have that. Can yuo download the older versions? (v4 was a rewrite IIRC and a lot of things were broken).
"John" wrote in news:1131252347.179775.184560 @g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
I posted the question in girder's forum and the company people turned out to be very helpful. They did answer my questions and I was able to get girder to at least let me add the plugin.
Now what I need to do is to send / recieve x10 commands using it. Will update you once I can do it. I've never used LUA. Will try again tomorrow,
Thanks,
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