Pool Valve Control

Well, I just spent a fortune on a pool/spa.

I was hoping to control the valves with my Elk M1-Gold.

I've got Goldline Control valve actuators (GVA-24). Unfortunately, they are 24VAC and the Elk outputs are 12V.

Anybody used their Elk to control their spa/pool? Any ideas/inputs?

Many thanks in advance.

Mitch

Reply to
Mitch
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You have a couple of choices. You can replace the actuators with 12 volt models - Goldline offers them as well as others but they're not that common. Or, you could use the 12 volt outputs to drive the coils of DPST relays to operate the actuators you have. This would be the cheaper method by a long shot since $8 relays from Radio Shack should do the job nicely. Goldline, Jandy and Hayward actuators are interchangeable. Basically, you want to run the three wires from the switch (you may have a cable attached already) to the DPST relay. Common goes to the center, open to one pole and close to the other pole. When the relay is energized the valve will open and it will close when you turn it off (or vice versa depending on how you wire it). If you have 2 valves that need to operate att he same time - always - you could use a DPDT switch. I built a pool controller to use with my JDS Stargate. A picture of it is here and a wiring diagram is available:

From:Mitch snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com

Reply to
BruceR

Cool... But, you left off the url for the pics/wiring.

Mitch

BruceR wrote:

Reply to
Mitch

DOH!

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the Pool Controller album there and feel free to enjoy all the other pictures.

From:Mitch snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com

Reply to
BruceR

Very Nice!!!

What is the pool controller you have?

Also, have you done anything to get into your spa/pool heater?

I'd like to use the Elk M1 to switch the heater between spa and pool mode (at least) and change the temperature setting if possible.

BTW, I'll almost certainly go with the relays. I can't seem to get the

12V actuators here (La Jolla, Ca).

thanks,

Mitch

BruceR wrote:

Reply to
Mitch

How much did those goldline actuators cost you? I priced one out (24v) at a place here, the total came to about $250 CDN! I'd love to find a less expensive solution..

Reply to
Paul

I got the Goldline actuators thru a pool guy here for $150 US. Not a lot better price than you got.

So, please tell me more about the pool controller you have in the pics...

Many thanks,

Mitch

Paul wrote:

Reply to
Mitch

The Goldline actuators are interchangeable with Jandy and Hayward and probably made by one of them. $150 is a good price and you can find them on ebay even cheaper. The Pool Controller in my picture is homegrown - I built it myself using DIN mounted contactors I found on ebay for the high voltage stuff, an RS485 controlled relay board connected to my JDS Stargate, and a low voltage power distribution board from

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The case is a surplus Primestar enclosure.

From:Mitch snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com

Reply to
BruceR

So the green board is similar to this power dist board, just to neaten the wiring.

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The blue board accepts RS485 commands to control the high power relays?
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The first 4 functions listed on the lid are controlled by the high power relays (numbered 1-4) and the other functions (5-8) are directly controlled by the low power relays on the blue board?

Very nice!

Reply to
Wayne

Thanks. You've got it exactly right - right down to the part numbers! The green board was removed from its case (as was the blue board) to put it all together in the surplus Primestar case. The setup is about 2 years old now and hasn't missed a beat. The high power relays (aka contactors) are European and mount on a short section of DIN rail. They're normally quite pricey but I only paid ~$5 apiece on ebay and the guy through in a piece of DIN rail for a couple extra bucks. The RS485 output on the Stargate controls the relay board. I can send an X10 command to activate a macro to turn things on and off. In my case, P7-On first turns on the spa pump, waits 3 seconds and activates the valve actuator to send water from the spa through the heater and 20 seconds later turns on the heater. Finally, after a 10 minute delay to allow the water to warm up, the spa jets turn on. There are a couple ofhter commands in the macro too. When we're done, P7-Off shuts off the jets and the heater, delays 1 minute then closes the valve and shuts off the pump.

From:Wayne snipped-for-privacy@j52.info

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Reply to
BruceR

Thanks Bruce. What (if anything) do you do for pool & spa monitoring? I am a new owner of a house with a pool/spa combo and want to monitor & control it. The existing old Jandy based controller is dead and replacement/repair seems overpriced for an HA guy. Temperature monitoring is obviously desired. I think I would like to monitor the pump running and the pressure output to avoid running the pump dry somehow. I would like to monitor the water level. I would like to monitor how much the solar panels are being used, both monitoring the actuator and the temperature difference between panel input & output.

Monitoring pH and chlorine would be great, but those sensors seem to be expensive, so that may not be justifiable.

Anyth>Thanks. You've got it exactly right - right down to the part numbers!

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Reply to
Wayne

I just wanted equipment control so I didn't put in any monitoring. For water level monitoring I just look out the window. The Stargate adds water every day to make up for evaporation. For chemical monitoring I pay a pool guy to come weekly and take care of cleaning and chemicals - I used to do it myself but it was a PITA and impractical since I travel a lot. Living in Hawaii temperature monitoring isn't an issue. The pool is always perfect just from the sun and the spa is heated only when we use it. The 350,000 BTU heater gets it up to temp in about 10 minutes!

From:Wayne snipped-for-privacy@j52.info

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Reply to
BruceR

In this new pool (I've built a few over the years in other homes), we've got an auto-filler and a salt system (instead of chlorine).

The autofiller is toilet-technology (float ball and valve in a box in the ground). But it works great.

The "chlorination" is done with salt. Totally cool. Costs about $10 a year in "chemicals" -- no chlorine tablets, etc. Just a bag of salt or so.

I would like to monitor the salt-system though and I'd love to have temperature and PH monitoring as well.

I guess Hawaii's weather is better than Southern California's!

Any good ideas?

Mitch

BruceR wrote:

Reply to
Mitch

Hmm, Chlorine is defined as a gaseous element (occurring combined in common salt.) That salt you are using is Sodium Chloride. A chloride is a compound element consisting of chlorine and something else.

....

Reply to
Jack Ak

In that regards, south Florida is much like So Cal. Our days are warm and sometimes *hot* but it cools down at night. My pool (~30,000 gallons) has a thermostatic valve controller to regulate the temperature. I set it for around 90ºF and it stays that way all day. At night the temperature may drop 4 or 5º but that's still comfortable for a leisurely midnight swim.

Same here, except our pool person is a young lady. She and her predecessor both thought the salt systems were more trouble than they're worth. They may have an axe to grind though, since they might believe that automation threatens their income.

I could use an automatic valve for two reasons. First, I tend to forget to turn off the sill c*ck when filling. More than once I've flooded the lanai and water is an expensive, not to mention precious resource. Second, I also travel a lot and it's always a concern that evaporation might cause the pump to lose its prime. Running dry for a few minutes probably won't hurt a centrifugal pump but I think a few weeks would kill it.

BTW, I have an interesting gadget for chlorine dispensing which some of you might find useful. It's a PVC tube long enough to hold about 15 chlorine tablets. On the bottom is a valve to control a trickle of water that flows through the tube. The valve regulates the amount of chlorine the pool gets. During the winter when the pool needs very little chlorine we stop it down. In the summer we open it up a bit more. A few days' checking each season gave me enough data to determine the proper settings for each season.

I can easily imagine some automator designing a servo-operated gate valve to do the adjustments based on pH and water temperature. For me the manual adjustment seems to work OK. I keep the pool girl even when we're out of the country for a few months just to make sure things are working properly.

Regards, Robert L Bass

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Reply to
Robert L Bass

I'm not sure if that was a question or a chemistry lesson ;-)

Anyway, if you're interested in more info on how the salt system keeps various bacteria, etc. from growing in the pool, I'd be happy to give you more info on the unit.

Basically, the stochiometry looks like this:

Na+ + Cl- + H2O -> Na+ + 1/2Cl2 + 1/2H2 + OH-

Sorry for the lack of subscripts...

Mitch (ex Biochemistry major.)

Jack Ak wrote:

Reply to
Mitch

Our pools stay warmer here because our nights stay warm and the pool retains the day's heat. In SoCal (where I used to live) nights were cool and the pool lost much of the day's heat. I've read about the salt systems but my pool guy thought they were a bit troublesome. One chlorine tab a week seems to do the trick for us.

From:Mitch snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com

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Reply to
BruceR

Here, it's just the opposite re: chlorination.

Most "high end" pool people will ONLY use the salt systems these days (and they push the cartridge filters). I know quite a few people with them and none have anything negative to say about them.

The primary reasons are:

- less harsh chemicals around - easier on the pool surface (plaster, 3m, pebbletech) - much less $ to operate - easier to maintain pool chemistry - much simpler to adjust

In my last pool we had a chlorinator like Robert describes. It worked pretty well, but the salt system is MUCH better.

Mitch

Robert L Bass wrote:

Reply to
Mitch

How much do those salt systems cost, though - $1,000? The payback period (relative to chlorine tabs) seems awfully long.

I'm using the Hayward "off-line" chlorinator, and when I automated the plumbing with actuators to control the spa, I needed to be able to turn the chlorinator off when in "spa mode" (to avoid bleaching the spa occupants) but on in "pool mode." I've been using an RCS X-10 relay controlling 24VAC to an irrigation valve with good results.

Reply to
Stu Alden

An alternate method, probably not convenient now that your system is installed, would have been to draw pool water into the spa heater intake. Once it's in the pool the chlorine is diluted.

In all likelihood, our pool guy was just bad-mouthing it because he doesn't sell it. We replaced him this year anyway. Caveat swimmer.

Regards, Robert L Bass

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Reply to
Robert L Bass

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