Microphone wiring

I need to hook up some mics in several rooms from a VR application. Thinking ahead when I moved in, or so I thought, I wired each room with cat5e, rg6 quad shielded, and 4 conductor

14 gauge unshielded to a central panel (star configuration).

So it would seem I don't have the correct wiring for mics, yes? Especially since I need to minimize noise.

My questions:

- Is there a way to use any of the wiring I already have? Baluns, etc?

- If I need to run more wire, what kind should it be and how should it be hooked up (drain wire? etc)

I'm at the limit of my knowledge here because I don't have much of an understanding of the issues. Noise, balanced vs unbalanced signal, etc.

Thanks in advance.

Reply to
Reg
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You need to provide more info - the more specific, the better.

What mics? How many mics? What mixer or pre-amp? What application?

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Reply to
Dave Houston

Thanks for the response, Dave. I'll try and cover everything.

I have one mic so far, currently direct connected to a PC:

Acoustic Magic Voice Tracker

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I've read they work well for VR so I expect to add 3 Crown pressure zone mics:

Crown PZM Series microphones

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As far as mixers, my first choice would be:

ClearOne XAP 800

Otherwise, I expect to use:

Shure SCM810 Eight Channel Microphone Mixer

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4 mics total. One or two might possibly be added in the future, but no more than that. Longest run from mic to mixer would be about 40-50 ft.

The application is voice recognition using Homeseer 2.2 with some custom vb.net code.

I appreciate the help.

Reply to
Reg

The PZM-11LL has a built-in pre-amp (needs power) and outputs line level audio (~1Vpp) which you can probably run over CAT5e cable depending on distance.

If you use PZM-11, the output is a few mV and requires a two-conductor shielded mic cable.

Either mixer can probably handle either type mic.

I suggest you tell Crown the details and ask their advice. They recommend two-conductor shielded mic cable for both but I would try the CAT5e with PZM-11LL mics before pulling new mic cable.

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Reply to
Dave Houston

Hi Reg,

I have Crown PZM-11LLWR, PZM-11, PZM-6FS, PZM-6D and PCC-130SW mics and HomeSeer but use IVIE automixers, not Shure or ClearOne.

If you haven't already, do try out HomeSeer's Voice Recognition (VR) software and satisfy yourself that it works adequately for your purposes with a single near-field, optimal microphone placement. The expensive mic and mixers you propose serve to reduce the severity of distribution problems and multiple-input problems but will do nothing to help the situation if a simple, local, minimal background-noise, one-mic setup does not perform adequately.

If you do proceed, avoid mics without built-in active electronics for line-level distribution. The PZM-11LL (Line Level) and PZM-11LLWR (Weather Resistant) have line-level output amps that can be powered from 12-24vdc. use one twisted pair of the CAT-5 for signal and another for power.

Be sure to provide current limiting of the DC power over CAT-5. Phantom power from the mixer will handle that automatically, but will require modification or special order of the PZM-l1LL.

If you should pick up too much noise, you can add baluns if and where needed but if your CAT-5 is well installed, noise typically isn't an obstacle for VR. The biggest single problem I've had with audio noise in recent years has been minor buzzing picked up from flaky X-10 dimmers (now resolved).

HTH ... Marc Marc_F_Hult

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Reply to
Marc_F_Hult

Lest I be misunderstood or misconstrued, note that by "audio noise" in the paragraph above I meant "electronic noise" . Extraneous noises picked up by mics are a severe problem even with the best of installations. In general, folks seem to have much greater expectations of multi-mic VR than the physics permit.

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One partial solution is to restrict the installation to phone-based equipment with good fidelity.

... Marc Marc_F_Hult

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Reply to
Marc_F_Hult

Yes! That's a very important point. One's lifestyle may have great influence on whether a VR system is going to be successful. Having lots of people, lots of different voices and lots of background noises like TVs or radios will really degrade performance.

Perhaps things have changed since I last played with VR in the late 90's, but it was pretty hilarious to set up a voice recognition program to simply type what it *thought* (word used anthropomorphically!) it heard out of over-amplified background noise. The results were often far better than any TV sitcom.

The problem is the imprecision of single spoken words. Last night, I was channel surfing and heard and saw what I thought were two attractive women discussing UNIX. Turns out after watching for a few seconds that they were talking about eunuchs. Click!(-:

The telephone idea is good. If there were a tiny pendant cordless I could hang around my neck it would nearly solve the problem of not needing to actually find a phone to issue a command. That's what I think most HA VR users are seeking. The artifact-free command system that works almost by magic.

Even two centuries from now, the Star Trek folks still needed that "brooch" communicator - and that's probably what cellphones will be reduced to in size someday. One doesn't need anything but a channel back to the base since you should be able to command it entirely by voice so you don't even need a keypad. With little need for other cordless phone features, it would be a great way to "run the house" by voice. Add an RFID chip and locators in the house and you've got occupancy detection licked, too.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

There are multiple vendors of Voice Recognition for TREO now and I presume, other phones. I had it on my TREO 650 (whose Bluetooth capabilities were limited, but haven't installed it in my TREO 680 yet.

One such instantiation is already here: 'mobile phone with Bluetooth'. The same TREO that can "call home" by voice command can also talk to HA software with voice commands once connected.

A third-party software add-in is available for HomeSeer that alerts that HA software that a Bluetooth transmitter (eg on TREO is in range, but I haven't tried it yet. With Bluetooth version 2.0 + EDR (Enhanced Data Rate), piconets are being developed which could provide triangulated location using the Received Signal Strength Indicator (RSSI) that was added to BT with v1.2. The number becomes the person's ID.

These are a few more of what has changed since 1999.

... Marc Marc_F_Hult

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Reply to
Marc_F_Hult

I can handle talking into a phone. But truth be told, I find it difficult to talk to a wall. This is not entirely rational, but none-the-less determinative of whether I can actually use VR for HA.

[ ... ]

Right. Either "WAN", or "Juan", or "one", or "won",or "won(der)" might be jist fine, but two or more near-homophones, or a polyseme or homonym typically are not.

One solution is the use of a structured, carefully considered set of voice commands rather than generalized voice recognition.

Thus the standardized NATO "Alpha", "Bravo", "Charlie" etc.

'Course some of us still end up shouting "Florida", "Freddie!", "Fox!!", ... and so on ... at the mic.

I revisit this area of HA endeavor every few years. If I had a video monitor that talked back -- argued, even -- it might be different ;-)

... Marc Marc_F_Hult

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Reply to
Marc_F_Hult

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