I will be building a 3,100 sqft higher end home soon. During construction I will have an amplifier/repeater and multimedia surge protection device installed near/at the main ac panel (in preparation for future home automation). Deep j-box's will be used and all three wires will be pulled to each j-box.
My question is concerning how the new Leviton "Intellisense" stacks up against some of the other best X-10 stuff out there. I really DISLIKE the looks of a small antenna hanging outside of a receptacle so SMARTHOME's INSTEON is not attractive (IMO).
Curious to hear what others think of Leviton's new stuff.
If you can avoid X10 based products in favor of something better you should do so. Even with Intellisense X10 technology has inherent problems typical of a 30 year old technology. If you must stick with X10 then the Smartlinc stuff is better than the Leviton Intellisense. Insteon is a far better choice though. Only 2 of the repeater units with the antennas are required and those can be plugged into outlets in closets, the garage or other hidden areas where they'll never be seen. Since your house is in planning, I recommend an outlet in every closet anyway. NONE of the other Insteon/Icon switches or modules have an antenna and they use the same housings as the Smartlinc X10 stuff. The switches are shallower than the Levitons too. BTW, tell the electrician to use the deepest boxes he can everywhere and to be sure that he runs a neutral to every wall switch box. So now that the antenna issue is covered take another at Insteon. I built my house 4 years ago and at the time the Leviton Intellisense stuff was the best available and it works fairly well. However, since then I added Smartlinc X10 switches and modules as I needed more and now I'm taking out all the X10 based stuff and migrating to Insteon. I'll probably complete the transition over the next 6 months. As an off topic aside, another recommendation is to have the plumber use cast iron waste risers if it's a multi-level home. That way you won't hear a waterfall on the first floor when a second floor toilet is flushed. The cost is nominal to do it and you won't regret it.
The antenna is only on the Insteon RF links which are used to bridge the two phases. These are best located near the entrance panel so are likely to be out of sight. Switches and lamp/appliance modules have no antenna. Worst case is that you might need a couple extra RF modules to fill in areas but I suspect that will not often be required. That might change once handheld Insteon remotes appear but, even then, the few RF units can be hidden.
If I were build>Looking for meaningful input......
Kurt, I have some Simply Automated UPB units that I've never used; 1 each, lampmod, appl mod, I/O mod, serial controller and tabletop controller. If you're interested let me know.
Guys, Thanks for the thoughtful and educational posts. I will re-visit Insteon and look into UPD . Where is the most economical place to mail order these items from (directly from Smarthome? other places?).
The Leviton Intellisense is still X-10, so it will come with all the reliability problems associated with that technology. Yes, it can work, but so many things may change in the house down the line that would affect the system. I even had an electric toothbrush take out 90% of my X-10 devices in a previous house. Never again.
You have some very good, reliable technologies to choose from now, IMHO. Insteon and UPB are a couple that have been getting very good reviews. I personally have been installing a UPB system, and even without a phase coupler I have had absolute 100% reliability so far.
Clearly a lot of people have trouble with X10. We've got the older Leviton Intellisense "red line" switches here, and they work with 100% reliability.
Since you are building a new house, there are a couple of things you can do to make it X10 friendly:
1) I had the electrician route one circuit throughout the main level for all electronic gear that is likely to be either a noise source or signal sucker. That circuit is fed through the 20 amp ACT AF300 filter. I also have the option of running that circuit off a big UPS so all electronic gear pretty much isolated from line transients.
2) We use compact fluorescents in ceiling cans. We installed the small Leviton 6287 noise blocks after the X10 switches for all circuits feeding these lights.
3) We planned the electrical circuits so all circuits that could possibly use X10 automation are on the same phase. The other phase runs things like the furnace, dishwasher, microwave, laundry, etc.
With that all done, we did have two X10 problems:
The first outlet I plugged the TW523 into didn't work properly. An adjacent outlet on the same circuit in either direction worked fine. Adding a Leviton line filter to the offending outlet solved the problem, but the cause was never understood. I scoped the signal with and without the filter, and saw no change in the waveform.
The other problem is that once in a blue moon a lamp module in our living room misses the OFF command. It might be related to the CF bulb it serves. Since it only happens every few months, I haven't bothered pursuing it.
We issue hundreds of X10 commands every day to control lights, irrigation, water recirculation, vent fans, shop tools, etc. It is a rare occasion when something doesn't work. That's pretty dang good reliability in my book.
. No association other than a satisfied customer. UPB devices are made by Simply Automated, HAI, PCS, as well as a couple others.
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has some good information on the technology, as well as a good selection of devices. I really like the selection of controllers / switches they have. To get an idea of how the various switches, etc. can be configured, you can download the UpStart configuration software (from the Simply Automated site) and "design" a system -- no hardware needed, as it will work in an "offline" mode.
Is that simply an issue of the thickness of the cast iron pipe deadening the sound of the flush? I wonder if you couldn't retrofit a pipe wrap around the plastic waste pipe in a house that wasn't made cast iron waste risers.
One of the many interesting gotchas of new home construction techniques. Have you discovered any others?
Oh boy, I could start a seperate newsgroup on THAT topic! The density of the cast iron is what keeps it quiet. Wrapping with insulation won't be easy in a 4" or 6" wall. The sound is magnified if the ABS (plastic) pipe is touching the drywall. If you can get to the ABS to insulate it, just cut it out and replace it with cast iron. It's not difficult at all. Another tip: Build your floors out of 3/4" tongue & groove (T&G) plywood glued to the joists and screwed - not nailed - to prevent bouncing and squeaks.
From:Robert Green ROBERT snipped-for-privacy@YAH00.COM
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:03:49 -0600, "Gymfolks" wrote (with possible editing):
If it's really higher end, I wouldn't consider any of the X-10, Intellisense, etc. stuff out there. Hard wired is by far more reliable. I have a lot of the X-10 clones and a bit of ALC. The ALC over the last 5 years has been 100% reliable; all of the X-10 variants have been less so.
We have an HAI Omni Pro II controlling everything. There are 79 zones and HAI and the ALC is by far the most reliable. It isn't cheap, but if you're looking for the best - that's it.
I considered that before we did it. The microwave and dishwasher never run together. Other kitchen loads are on the X10 side. Loads like the sump and furnace are pretty much random, but could be on together. The BIG loads are the 240V stove, dryer and those two A/C compressors.
In a properly wired house, it doesn't really matter which phase the loads are on. It is only important when the neutral is not capable of carrying the full load. In this house, either phase is capable of carrying the full
This is my read so far....(a GENERALIZATION), tell me if I have it right. X-10 or X-10 based items can and do work, but there MAY BE occasions where they aren't always super reliable.
Insteon and UPB looks promising, however Insteon is so new that there are relatively few devices available. So, UPB now gets a closer look.
Will all manufacturers of UPB devices function with each other (are they at least supposed to?)? How does HAI stuff stack up to other UPB manufactures?
This is my read so far....(a GENERALIZATION), tell me if I have it right. X-10 or X-10 based items can and do work, but there MAY BE occasions where they aren't always super reliable.
Insteon and UPB looks promising, however Insteon is so new that there are relatively few devices available. So, UPB now gets a closer look.
Will all manufacturers of UPB devices function with each other (are they at least supposed to?)? How does HAI stuff stack up to other UPB manufactures?
X-10 does work but is requiring an increasing amount of knowledge, time, effort, and diagnostic tools to keep it working optimally. There are now several companies making X-10 "compatible" devices with features that differ from one manufacturer to another.
There are plenty of Insteon devices available. UPB has some specialized modules (Digital Inputs) that Insteon does not have yet but have switches (dimmers or on/off), lamp modules, appliance modules, etc. Insteon's prices are much better. Insteon's basic technology lends itself to more sophisticated devices than does UPB.
I looked at both the UPB and Insteon product lines and found that Insteon, even at this early stage has a two flavors of wall switches for both dimming and non-dimming applicationsas well as the plug in modules I need. They also have tabletop and wall mounted controllers. Anything else I can handle with the Stargate controller. With the X10 translator I can even use PalmPads for wireless remotes. Also, look at the pricing. The UPB products are 2 to 3 times more expensive than Insteon. I don't want to come across as a cheerleader for Insteon but I do think they have a winner. That said, if Insteon wasn't born I'd be converting everything to UPB right now.
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