Energy use in "off mode" with X10 modules and LED light bulbs

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Does anyone know if there are any ill effects from using LED lamps with X10
 modules.  It is pretty well known that when "off", the LED's dim but stay  
lit.  If I do not care bout them being completely off (like in a closet, st
airwell, or garage ...), how much current drain is there if I just let them
 glow slightly.  I am switching 11 watt LED's for 13 watt CFL's.  If the dr
ain is over 2 watts, then switching would not help much. If drain is lower,
 then it might make sense to let them glow in the off position.

I also don't understand that in one circuit it is half brightness when off,
 but in another, the glow is only noticeable in complete darkness.

I am using Phillips non-dimmable, but they do dim - maybe they might burn o
ut sooner.  

Re: Energy use in "off mode" with X10 modules and LED light bulbs
 marklewesq@gmail.com wrote:

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Shouldn't be, if you run them as ON-OFF only.

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There is sometimes a problem with CFLs flashing every few seconds, due  
to leakage through an internal resistor in the X10 lamp module. The  
flashing can be stopped by removing the resistor, which also prevents  
local control. It is *possible* that the LED-dim problem is related.  
Ping me if you feel like clipping the resistor.

Another trick to stop the flashing is to parallel the CFL with a 7-watt  
night-light, which serves to overcome the leakage current. It would be  
easy enough to try that with the LED lamps too. I have no idea whether  
it would work ...

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Does a specific bulb do that regardless of which X10 unit it's connected  
to, or does a specific X10 unit cause any bulb to do that?

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If Philips says they are non-dimmable, I'd guess they mean "don't do it  
because a Bad Thing might happen" rather than "it won't work". You might  
ping them to see if they'll tell you.

Isaac

Re: Energy use in "off mode" with X10 modules and LED light bulbs
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 21:09:33 -0700 (PDT), marklewesq@gmail.com wrote:

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You can always use an appliance module. Simply all on or all off.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Re: Energy use in "off mode" with X10 modules and LED light bulbs

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Yup, but noisy.

Isaac

Re: Energy use in "off mode" with X10 modules and LED light bulbs
On 8/22/2016 1:05 AM, isw wrote:
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And still the small "leakage" continues because of the local control  
sense current.  So, the lamp will still light dimly or flicker.  I've  
removed the resistor (plenty of on line sites tell how).  If the clicks  
bother you, you can modify an lamp module to make it a click free  
appliance module (again several sites show how).  I have done this to  
several modules and they work just fine with CFLs and now LEDs.  One  
such module seems to get stuck in the on state after a short power  
glitch.  I have to then do a clean power cycle to get it back to normal.

Re: Energy use in "off mode" with X10 modules and LED light bulbs
wrote:

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There are modern applicance modules that still click loudly?  I think I
swapped out my last original X-10 module for something programmable and
silent at least 10 years ago.  You should also be able to program whether
the "local on" feature is active, which is usually what wants to pass that
small trickle current through the appliance to detect the local switch
being toggled.  That's the current that is just enough to make a high
efficiency light like an LED come on dimly.

Re: Energy use in "off mode" with X10 modules and LED light bulbs
On 8/27/2016 6:11 PM, Brian W. Antoine wrote:
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The programmable appliance modules I've used, Smarthome, still squirt a  
current through the appliance (lamp) for the local on/off function.  
And, as I recall, the current is still present even when the local  
on/off function is unused.  The current for these modules is much  
smaller than that of regular older design modules, but still can make a  
string of LED Christmas lights glow dimly, but less than the regular  
modules.

Re: Energy use in "off mode" with X10 modules and LED light bulbs
wrote:

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Ok, good to know.  I'd have thought by now that companies making these
modules would have dealt with the LED issue, but maybe not.  The module
has to get power from someplace to operate.  The really old X-10 stuff
was two wire, it got it's power via a trickle current through the load.
With modern three wire modules, I'd have expected that when you turned
off the local sense feature, it really did mean do not pass current
through the load.

One of the last old style appliance modules I swapped out was for my
Christmas Tree lights.  It was loud and I had to put a 4W nightlight
on the circuit also, otherwise the trickle current from the LED's was
enough to trip the local sense and a few seconds after I turned the
lights off, they'd come back on.  The ICON module that I used next
was both silent and the lights stayed off.

Re: Energy use in "off mode" with X10 modules and LED light bulbs
To get a lamp module to work with LEDs and CFLs and low-power incandescent, you have to remove components associated with the local control feature.  

If you are ok with doing mods to your appliance module, open it up and locate the 100K resistor (brown-black-yellow bands) and the 330K resistor (orange-orange-yellow bands).  Chop both out of the unit. Or at least clip one lead of each.

The local control feature won't work, but LEDs and other low-power bulbs will work fine.

This will also reduce the quiescent power drain of the module.

Re: Energy use in "off mode" with X10 modules and LED light bulbs
On Thursday, October 5, 2017 at 2:38:55 PM UTC-4, lxb...@gmail.com wrote:
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Mr. lxb,
Thanks for this info! In other posts suggested snipping a zener which did not help. But please clarify: there are two 330k resistors in the schematic. Which one is the correct one?

Thanks tremendously! Joe

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