Anyone moved to LED Lighting?

Not in this thread but many of the "energy saving" advertisements used in the media use this expression

"Saving Watts"

It clearly demonstrates ignorance of power and energy and belittles the whole intent of any programme using it.

Point well made and exemplified by your post implicating Dave Houston. It can be clearly shown from history, here, that a hidden agenda may be lurking in your demonstration.

pot, kettle? LOL

More appropriately, your most intelligent argument should have been

"Say Watt?"

LED tail light are not "very bright". The illumination is very poor.

However LED lights are very focused and play on the human vision system to compete with the effectiveness of incandescents.

Many incandescent tail lights have taken a lesson in efficiency also and many of the so-called LED taillights on vehicles are actually incandescent bulbs. Take a closer look and you will see many peanut bulbs in a reflector with small pockets.

When will we see back-up LED lights on vehicles? Not likely in the near future. The total luminence is not there to illuminate an area. Something LEDs have failed at, to date.

I've seen LED back up lights on a couple of newer Luxury cars. BTW, The 2009 Cadillac Escalade Platinum has LED headlights.

I've seen plenty of direct replacements for 1157 incandescents, complete with standard bayonet base.

Once again, you are COMPLETELY wrong. The only thing in this conversation that is not very bright, is you.

Once again, you are COMPLETELY wrong. Just so I could say I knew for certain, I just went out and looked again. LED's, dopey. Nine in each tail/brakelight. Looked in the manual and in the list of replacement bulbs, there is nothing listed for tail lights. They are not expected to need replacement in the lifetime of the vehicle. If they are damaged in an accident, you replace the whole light array as an assembly.

Game, Set, Match

Once again, you are COMPLETELY wrong. Have someone (who can read) look up the word "array" in a dictionary and explain it to you.

Careful. You'll make Josepi's head explode.

You base your whole argument and insults on the back of some vehicle parked at the back of your scrap yard? Show me the money.

At least if you are going to use over 2348 (your figures) different nyms you should attempt to change your stupid insult style of words. It would make trolling and stalking much more effective for you.

**sigh** The newbies.

You can run but you can never hide. Better luck next time.

I would like to see cites of this. This is quite interesting. Apparently the Lexus (2008) used LEDs for low beam headlights. Here is an exepr from a sirte discussing that. The heigh heat put out by LED inefficiency is a problem.

--------------------------------------------- Automotive headlamp applications using light-emitting diodes (LEDs) have been undergoing very active development since 2004.[38][39] The first series-production LED headlamps were factory-installed on the Lexus LS 600h / LS 600h L starting with the 2008 models. Low beam, front position light and sidemarker functions are performed by LEDs; high beam and turn signal functions use filament bulbs. The headlamp is supplied by Koito. Full-LED headlamps supplied by AL-Automotive Lighting were fitted on the 2008 V10 Audi R8 sports car except in North America. The Hella headlamps on the 2009 Cadillac Escalade Platinum became the first U.S. market all-LED headlamps. Present designs give performance between halogen and HID headlamps,[40] with system power consumption slightly lower than other headlamps, longer lifespans and more flexible design possibilities.[41][42] As LED technology continues to evolve, the performance of LED headlamps is predicted to improve to approach, meet, and perhaps one day surpass that of HID headlamps.[43]

The limiting factors with LED headlamps presently include high system expense, regulatory delays and uncertainty, and logistical issues created by LED operating characteristics. LEDs are commonly considered to be low-heat devices due to the public's familiarity with small, low-output LEDs used for electronic control panels and other applications requiring only modest amounts of light. However, LEDs actually produce a significant amount of heat per unit of light output. Rather than being emitted together with the light as is the case with conventional light sources, an LED's heat is produced at the rear of the emitters. The cumulative heat of numerous high-output LEDs operating for prolonged periods poses thermal-management challenges for plastic headlamp housings. In addition, this heat buildup materially reduces the light output of the emitters themselves. LEDs are quite temperature sensitive, with many types producing at 30 °C (86 °F) only

60% of the rated light output they produce at an emitter junction temperature 16 °C (61 °F). Prolonged operation above the maximum junction temperature will permanently degrade the LEDs and ultimately shorten the device's life. The need to keep LED junction temperatures low at high power levels always requires additional thermal management measures such as heatsinks and exhaust fans which are typically quite expensive.

Additional facets of the thermal issues with LED headlamps reveal themselves in cold ambient temperatures. Many types of LEDs produce at ?12 °C (10 °F) up to 160% of their 16 °C (61 °F) rated output. The temperature-dependency of LED's light output creates serious challenges for the engineering and regulation of automotive lighting devices, which are in some cases required to produce intensities within a range smaller than the variation in LED output with temperatures normally experienced in automotive service.

Cold weather also brings another thermal-management conundrum: Not only must heat be removed from the rear of the headlamp so that the housing does not deform or melt and the emitters' output does not drop excessively, but heat must in addition be effectively applied to thaw snow and ice from the front lenses, which are not heated by the comparatively small amount of infared radiation emitted forward with the light from LEDs.

LEDs are increasingly being adopted for signalling functions such as parking lamps, brake lamps and turn signals as well as daytime running lamps, as in those applications they offer significant advantages over filament bulbs with fewer engineering challenges than headlamps pose.

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I've tried a couple out of curiosity, they range from "OK but about half the apparent brightness of a 1034 or 1157" or "so dim you'd have to be insane to even think about using them." Nothing actually "acceptable."

None of the vendors of same are willing to put in their documentation a comparison of brightness between their "bulbs" and a standard 1034/1157.

nate

Now you have become pretty much incoherent. I have been on usenet since... well, a very long time. I have changed my nym maybe 5 or so times in 20 or so years. I only use one at a time, usually for many years, before changing to another.

And you remain completely wrong on everyting else, too. Now the list of things you are confused about is just longer.

I haven't tried them myself, as my cars already have LED tail and brake lights. My greatest experience is in use of LED's to replace interior lights in yachts, as well as Navigation lights, which have very strict requirements set by the government. They have to be visible for a specified distance, and in specific arcs of coverage, both vertical and horizontal. They need to have full brightness in the specified coverage parameters. Obviously single LED's won't do that, which seems to completely stymie Josepi. The simple answer is that most LED replacements for incandesent bulbs in almost ANY application other than indicator lights on a panel, are accomplished by use of arrays of LED's, not a single LED.

The only problem with high output LED lights is the need for cooling. Like most semiconductor technologies, excessive heat will damage them. The Cadillac LED headlights have built in cooling fans.

TDD

That's a problem we don't have to deal with in Sarasota. :^)

Heh, heh, heh... :^)

The bag limit works in reverse with these "birds". The typical conversation in their car goes something like this:

Blue Hair: "George, you just ran a red light!"

No Hair: "Oh, am I driving?"

Regards, Robert

Therein lies the problem. Lamp housings using reflectors or prismatic lenses for nav lights and other purposes are designed to use a light coming from a single point. Incandescent bulbs do that rather well. An LED array can't work as well in that type of lamp because only a few of the LEDs are at the focal point. Light emitted from the rest of the LEDs will be scattered in wrong directions.

That does not mean that LEDs can't serve well in nav lights -- only that they don't work well as replacements for standard bulbs in *existing* lamps. If someone designs a lamp around light coming from the broad surface of an LED array it may turn out to be a better choice for sailboats. Sailing is in that respect analogous to living "off the grid." Folks interested in learning ways to conserve energy might learn a lot from folks who sail.

You are already off course. ;-)

Way off course. The alarms are now sounding and crew are running up on deck.

Not true. As I said, they have to perform to strict legal standards - and they do. I did not replace any fixtures for my nav lights. All done with drop in LED arrays made to completely and legally reproduce the same or better light. Couldn't do it if they didn't comply. LED's can be mounted in arrays on the surface of any shape in order to give full brightness in all directions needed. They individually have a fairly narrow beam, but you simply mount a bunch of them so that the beams overlap. I'm not speculating about this. I have them on my sailboat. So do a lot of other folks.

Electrical power on a sailboat is precious. As I mentioned previously, I have a written "electrical budget" that details the draw of every single piece of equipment on the boat, including draw for things like the separate "memory" power lead of the digital am/fm/CD which draws miniscule amounts of power. This draw spec is not from the specs that come with the devices. It is measured at the power source (breaker panel) to take into account all losses inherent in the system.

I know at all times how many amp hours I'm consuming, and how many I'm generatingfrom various sources. I also have to compute how long at how many amps I have to input power to replace used amp hours. It is not a

1:1 ratio. Battery charging is not simply stuffing juice back in to replace the amount used.