Water heater eating X-10 signal
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Posted by on April 16, 2007, 5:11 pm
Please log in for more thread options I've had a modest X-10 system running in our house for a few years. It took me a while to get it working reliably enough to get the WAF to a level where my wife wasn't cursing "HAL" every other day. Part of that effort involved installing an active phase coupler in our mains panel. Everything was working pretty well, until we recently added an electric water heater to the panel. The water heater is wired to a double pole 30 amp breaker in the panel via about 60' of 10/2 w/ground (no neutral connection on the heater, just the two hots). After I installed it I noticed that our X-10 controlled outside lights weren't coming on in the evenings. After a little troubleshooting I discovered that if I switched off the breaker for the heater, the X-10 system went back to normal. Switching the breaker on makes the problem reappear. I'm guessing that the connection to heater and/or the heater itself is "sinking" the X-10 signal. Is there a wired, in-line filter available that I can fit in after the breaker to block the X-10 signal from the heater and its wiring? Is that the correct approach in this case? Thanks. | ||||
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Posted by Jeff Volp on April 16, 2007, 6:05 pm
Please log in for more thread options 30 amps. The largest is the big XPF, which is rated for 20 amps. It would take 4 of them to filter both hot leads running to the water heater. A heavy electrical load across the two phases normally helps X10 signal distribution, so there must be something more here than just the heater element. There may be some sort of surge protection shunting the X10 signal to ground. Perhaps your signals were marginal before adding the heater. It might be a good idea to invest in a X10 signal level meter, such as the ESM1, to find out what is really going on. Since filtering a high current load is not very practical, the only suggestion I have if it is the water heater is to increase your signal strength beyond what your active phase coupler can do. Jeff | ||||
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Posted by Dan Lanciani on April 16, 2007, 9:43 pm
Please log in for more thread options JeffVolp@msn.com (Jeff Volp) writes:
| A heavy electrical load across the two phases normally helps X10 signal | distribution, so there must be something more here than just the heater | element. He mentioned that he has an "active phase coupler." If by that he means what we normally call a repeater and if the repeater is of a design that drives the two legs out of phase then a heavy leg-to-leg load will diminish the apparent signal level as the carriers interfere destructively. Dan Lanciani ddl@danlan.*com | ||||
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Posted by Jeff Volp on April 16, 2007, 10:05 pm
Please log in for more thread options > JeffVolp@msn.com (Jeff Volp) writes:
> > | A heavy electrical load across the two phases normally helps X10 signal > | distribution, so there must be something more here than just the heater > | element. > > He mentioned that he has an "active phase coupler." If by that he > means what we normally call a repeater and if the repeater is of a > design that drives the two legs out of phase then a heavy leg-to-leg > load will diminish the apparent signal level as the carriers interfere > destructively. Hi Dan, I had thought of that, but I didn't think any repeater would drive the two legs out of phase due to that exact issue. Any 240V resistive load, such as a dryer or stove, would squash the signal. But it is possible... Jeff | ||||
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Posted by Dan Lanciani on April 16, 2007, 10:42 pm
Please log in for more thread options JeffVolp@msn.com (Jeff Volp) writes:
| > JeffVolp@msn.com (Jeff Volp) writes:
|
| > | > | A heavy electrical load across the two phases normally helps X10 signal | > | distribution, so there must be something more here than just the heater | > | element. | > | > He mentioned that he has an "active phase coupler." If by that he | > means what we normally call a repeater and if the repeater is of a | > design that drives the two legs out of phase then a heavy leg-to-leg | > load will diminish the apparent signal level as the carriers interfere | > destructively. | Hi Dan, | | I had thought of that, but I didn't think any repeater would drive the two | legs out of phase due to that exact issue. Any 240V resistive load, such as | a dryer or stove, would squash the signal. But it is possible... The only repeater whose circuit I've traced (ACT CR230) drives them out of phase. My understanding has always been that this is the standard practice in order to accommodate 240V modules which would otherwise have a difficult time seeing the signal. I assume it is also the reason for the standard warning about using a repeater in conjunction with the blocker/coupler. Have you ever encountered a repeater that drives the legs in phase (ignoring your own designs, of course :)? I have the original Leviton unit (i.e., the one before the one before the current one) but I'm not sure it's worth the bother to take it apart and trace the circuit. Dan Lanciani ddl@danlan.*com | ||||
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>
> I've had a modest X-10 system running in our house for a few years.
> It took me a while to get it working reliably enough to get the WAF to
> a level where my wife wasn't cursing "HAL" every other day.
>
> Part of that effort involved installing an active phase coupler in our
> mains panel. Everything was working pretty well, until we recently
> added an electric water heater to the panel.
>
> The water heater is wired to a double pole 30 amp breaker in the panel
> via about 60' of 10/2 w/ground (no neutral connection on the heater,
> just the two hots). After I installed it I noticed that our X-10
> controlled outside lights weren't coming on in the evenings. After a
> little troubleshooting I discovered that if I switched off the breaker
> for the heater, the X-10 system went back to normal. Switching the
> breaker on makes the problem reappear.
>
> I'm guessing that the connection to heater and/or the heater itself is
> "sinking" the X-10 signal.
>
> Is there a wired, in-line filter available that I can fit in after the
> breaker to block the X-10 signal from the heater and its wiring? Is
> that the correct approach in this case?
>
> Thanks.