Re: leviton vizia RF switches (Z-wave)
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Posted by David Rothman on March 16, 2007, 2:25 pm
Please log in for more thread options viable alternatives (albeit more pricey ones). thanks >
> Before your throw in the towel on X10, it may be worth seeing what you can > do to improve your X10 reliability. I have been writing a troubleshooting > series to help those who have X10 reliability problems: > > http://jeffvolp.home.att.net/x10_info/x10_troubleshooting.htm > > Even with all the electronics we have in this house, X10 was virtually > 100% reliable before I added the XTB. Since then, the only problem we > have had was due to the DST shift (forgot to re-enter latitude into C-Max > after installing the update). > > Jeff > | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Marc_F_Hult on March 16, 2007, 4:26 pm
Please log in for more thread options >i've been using x10 for years. i simply can't/won't use it if there are
>viable alternatives (albeit more pricey ones). thanks > Whether you use X-10 or some other Power Line Control (PLC, eg: UPB, INSTEON, various flavors of ethernet over powerline) you might find Jeff Volp's suggestions helpful. Key in my opinion is to have a map (i.e., schematic, or diagram) of your home's wiring so that you can understand the relationship and geometry between devices, noise sources, signal extenuators and AC phases. A strategy that would apply to all these technologies that IIRC Jeff has applied in his house to X-10, is to put the PLC devices on one phase and as many of the noise producers and signal suckers as practical on the other and _not_ use a phase coupler. Physics and the US and Canadian electrical codes dictate that one shouldn't move loads around willy-nilly in the AC power distribution panel, but in my case, I could make significant improvements taking care to keep the loads balanced and compliant with the NEC. ... Marc Marc_F_Hult www.ECOntrol.org | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Jeff Volp on March 16, 2007, 7:58 pm
Please log in for more thread options >
> Whether you use X-10 or some other Power Line Control (PLC, eg: UPB, > INSTEON, various flavors of ethernet over powerline) you might find Jeff > Volp's suggestions helpful. Thanks Marc. > Key in my opinion is to have a map (i.e., schematic, or diagram) of your
> home's wiring so that you can understand the relationship and geometry > between devices, noise sources, signal extenuators and AC phases. > > A strategy that would apply to all these technologies that IIRC Jeff has > applied in his house to X-10, is to put the PLC devices on one phase and > as many of the noise producers and signal suckers as practical on the > other and _not_ use a phase coupler. That is correct. And most of those potential "signal suckers' are confined to one circuit fed through a 20 amp X10 XPF filter. > Physics and the US and Canadian electrical codes dictate that one
> shouldn't move loads around willy-nilly in the AC power distribution > panel, but in my case, I could make significant improvements taking care > to keep the loads balanced and compliant with the NEC. While I agree that it is a good idea to balance loads across both phases, I couldn't find anything in the NEC regarding that issue. I may have missed it. Except for some slight variation in voltage due to line drop in the neutral, the only component in the distribution network that might be effected by load balancing is the utility step-down transformer. All three feeds to our main distribution panel are the same size, so the neutral is properly sized to handle the maximum current from either phase. That is not always the case, particularly in older buildings. Our major loads are the 240V A/C compressors necessary for this climate with peak summer temperatures well up in the teens. Lighting and convenience circuits are almost all on one phase, and the other phase supplies most electronics, fixed appliances, and other non-X10 circuits. The XTB-II is just driving the X10 phase. This configuration works very well. Jeff | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Marc_F_Hult on March 16, 2007, 10:44 pm
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>>
>> Physics and the US and Canadian electrical codes dictate that one >> shouldn't move loads around willy-nilly in the AC power distribution >> panel, but in my case, I could make significant improvements taking >> care to keep the loads balanced and compliant with the NEC. >
>While I agree that it is a good idea to balance loads across both phases, >I couldn't find anything in the NEC regarding that issue. I may have >missed it. Except for some slight variation in voltage due to line drop >in the neutral, the only component in the distribution network that >might be effected by load balancing is the utility step-down transformer. > Agreed. Though my first house had 100-amp service and no 220v appliances, and so had I put all lighting on one phase and all the window AC's and multitude of high-wattage 110v kitchen-counter appliances of the day on the other, I could have tripped the main breaker even when the total was well below the total service capacity by overloading (relatively) one phase and 'underloading' the other. The entrance panel also had numerous breakers that supplied more than one circuit which might have run afoul of NEC 210.11 (B) Load Evenly Proportioned Among Branch Circuits. My main point, not well expressed, was that not every homeowner is knowledgeable enough to safely rearrange the wiring in their AC service entrance panel. ... Marc Marc_F_Hult www.ECOntrol.org | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Robert L Bass on March 16, 2007, 11:11 pm
Please log in for more thread options >> Physics and the US and Canadian electrical codes dictate that one
>> shouldn't move loads around willy-nilly in the AC power distribution >> panel, but in my case, I could make significant improvements taking care >> to keep the loads balanced and compliant with the NEC. >
couldn't find anything in the NEC regarding that
> While I agree that it is a good idea to balance loads across both phases, I > issue...
NEC 70 mentions the subject in relation to neutral conductor size requirements. The concern is that an unbalanced load can create higher current on the neutral and (in the event of a break) on the grounding conductor. I may have missed > it. Except for some slight variation in voltage due to line drop in the
neutral, the only component in the distribution network
> that might be effected by load balancing is the utility step-down transformer.
If the neutral opens any unbalanced load goes directly to the ground which might not be of sufficient gauge to handle it. This could lead to overheating and possibly fire. > All three feeds to our main distribution panel are the same size, so the
neutral is properly sized to handle the maximum current
> from either phase. That is not always the case, particularly in older
buildings.
I don't know the physics well enough to be certain but presumably that's enough. > Our major loads are the 240V A/C compressors necessary for this climate with
peak summer temperatures well up in the teens.
> Lighting and convenience circuits are almost all on one phase, and the other
phase supplies most electronics, fixed appliances,
> and other non-X10 circuits. The XTB-II is just driving the X10 phase. This
configuration works very well.
We installed a 440/208 WYE transformer in my church some years ago. The chief electrician did careful load calcs to make certain the neutrals and grounding conductors wouldn't be overloaded. Some time later the system got rewired to accommodate 40 or 50 new 1KW circuits. It took a lot of time getting it straight again. To date the place hasn't burned down so I guess we did it right. :^) -- Regards, Robert L Bass =============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650 4883 Fallcrest Circle Sarasota · Florida · 34233 http://www.bassburglaralarms.com =============================>
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>> I'm replacing all my old X10 stuff (too flaky). i also have just redone
>> several rooms in my basement, so i'm going to wire up all those rooms
>> with a mix of non-RF and RF switches. If the technology is reliable, I'd
>> likely get to work changing many of the switches throughout the house.