Pool Heat Automation Suggestions
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Posted by Richard Kaplan on September 20, 2007, 2:50 pm
Please log in for more thread options operate year-round in a fairly cold climate (Pennsylvania). The pool has both an electric heat pump and a natural gas heater. I would like to automate the operation of the pool's heating system so that the automated system can: (1) Change valves between the heat pump and natural gas heater depending on outside temperature (2) Operate the heat pump whenever it is warm outside in order to efficiently store energy in the pool (3) Operate the natural gas heater only when the pool water falls below a given threshold (4) Log data regarding how many hours per day the heat pump and gas heater operate (5) Let me control/monitor the system via an Internet link Any suggestions regarding what system might accomplish this? I am particularly interested in a system which can be fairly sophisticated in terms of the algorithm I may use to decide which heat source is operational and for how long. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com | ||||
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Posted by Si Ballenger on September 20, 2007, 4:43 pm
Please log in for more thread options You probably need to provide the details of the equiment and how these actions are currently performed. | ||||
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Posted by Robert L Bass on September 20, 2007, 11:25 pm
Please log in for more thread options >I recently built an inground/outdoor covered pool which I intend to
>operate year-round in a fairly cold climate (Pennsylvania). The >pool has both an electric heat pump and a natural gas heater. > > I would like to automate the operation of the pool's heating system > so that the automated system can: > > (1) Change valves between the heat pump and natural gas heater > depending on outside temperature > (2) Operate the heat pump whenever it is warm outside in order to > efficiently store energy in the pool > (3) Operate the natural gas heater only when the pool water falls > below a given threshold > (4) Log data regarding how many hours per day the heat pump and gas > heater operate > (5) Let me control/monitor the system via an Internet link > > Any suggestions regarding what system might accomplish this? I am > particularly interested in a system which can be fairly > sophisticated in terms of the algorithm I may use to decide which > heat source is operational and for how long. Intermatic makes communicating (i.e., controllable) swimming pool automation systems. They use Z-Wave which is a popular automation communications protocol. The controllers can select and operate the appropriate pumps, heaters, etc., based on temperature conditions, least cost (time of day), etc. They can also be operated by comprehensive HA systems such as ELK-M1G, Homeseer, etc. Another posted suggested you provide more information on the systems you plan to implement. He's right, of course. In order to specify an appropriate controller we'd need a little more information. However, you can find information on ELK Products and Intermatic at the manufacturers' websites here: Intermatic: http://www.intermatic.com/images/catalog/300PS10168-LR.pdf HomeSeer: http://www.homeseer.com Elk Products: http://www.elkproducts.com/products/m1/elk-m1.htm There are numerous other manufacturers with their own solutions. Each has supporters and detractors. Arguments over which is the better HA protocol tend to take on religious fervor at times. I mention the above as a place to start your research -- not as though it's the only approach I might consider. Since I'm an ELK Products dealer and since I also sell Z-Wave products, naturally I have a slight bias in favor of them. However, I've chosen them because I believe in them. I'm installing an ELK-M1G system in my own home and I plan to use it to control my swimming pool and spa, among other things. Though the pool is probably smaller than yours, it's still large enough that I need to optimize the controls. We have a solar heating system but I plan to add an electric or propane auxiliary heater for those frigid days of winter when the temperature drops below 60ºF in Sarasota. :^) -- Regards, Robert L Bass =============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650 4883 Fallcrest Circle Sarasota · Florida · 34233 http://www.bassburglaralarms.com =============================>
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Posted by Richard Kaplan on September 21, 2007, 10:17 am
Please log in for more thread options
> Another posted suggested you provide more information on the systems
> you plan to implement. He's right, of course. In order to specify an > appropriate controller we'd need a little more information. Thanks for the help. The systems I would like to connect are: * Hayward H350 Natural gas heater * Heat Siphon electric heat pump (currently I have the analog model though I understand an upgrade is available to support a digital interface) * Electric pool pump (perhaps I need to control this so I can turn it off when valves are being changed) * 3 valves which control the flow of water between the electric heat pump and the gas heater * On/off switch to a recirculator pump which heats the interior of the dome by circulating water from a home water heater -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com | ||||
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Posted by Robert L Bass on September 22, 2007, 3:21 pm
Please log in for more thread options > Thanks for the help.
> > The systems I would like to connect are: > > * Hayward H350 Natural gas heater Hayward heaters have, among other things, an on/off/on rocker switxh which allows you to manually switch between pool, spa or none. Talk to the contractor or retailer if you're installing the Hayward yourself to see if you can't parallel this with relay outputs from your own controller. If you do it this way, provide a second switch or relay that will interrupt control from your HA system in the event the HA is down. That way the system will run stand alone while you're working on the HA system. > * Heat Siphon electric heat pump (currently I have the analog model
> though I understand an upgrade is available to support a digital > interface) Some of these can be triggered with a contact closure. If you can get the make/model that would help. Upgrading to digital might be a waste if you plan to operate the system using an HA system which will provide all the necessary logic. > * Electric pool pump (perhaps I need to control this so I can turn
> it off when valves are being changed) Yep. Also, make sure the pump will run continuously during sub-freezing temperatures in case the heating systems ever fail. > * 3 valves which control the flow of water between the electric
> heat pump and the gas heater Have you looked into an auxiliary solar heater? While Pennsylvania gets less sun than Florida it may still more than pay for itself, especially with rising fuel/electricity charges. > * On/off switch to a recirculator pump which heats the interior of
> the dome by circulating water from a home water heater Again, this is trivial to control with almost any HA system. I don't want to sound like a broken record about ELK Products, but their ELK-M1G system has an advantage over several other popular lines. Any of the inputs can be analog, allowing the system to read temperatures from remote probes to make comparison-based choices as to which heaters, pumps, valves, etc., should be on. Our pool & spa automation system currently uses solar but I plan to add either an electric or gas heater for winter (when temperatures drop below 70ºF)... :^) -- Regards, Robert L Bass =============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650 4883 Fallcrest Circle Sarasota · Florida · 34233 http://www.bassburglaralarms.com =============================>
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>operate year-round in a fairly cold climate (Pennsylvania). The pool
>has both an electric heat pump and a natural gas heater.
>
>I would like to automate the operation of the pool's heating system so
>that the automated system can:
>
>(1) Change valves between the heat pump and natural gas heater
>depending on outside temperature
>(2) Operate the heat pump whenever it is warm outside in order to
>efficiently store energy in the pool
>(3) Operate the natural gas heater only when the pool water falls below
>a given threshold
>(4) Log data regarding how many hours per day the heat pump and gas
>heater operate
>(5) Let me control/monitor the system via an Internet link
>
>Any suggestions regarding what system might accomplish this? I am
>particularly interested in a system which can be fairly sophisticated
>in terms of the algorithm I may use to decide which heat source is
>operational and for how long.