Computer Hardware When MBRDs fail + POST cards ? which POST cards?

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When MBRDs fail + POST cards ? which POST cards? jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk 01-10-07
Posted by jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk on January 10, 2007, 6:09 pm
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I've got 2 MBRDs. Both have the same problem.

They power up but I get no BIOS screen and no steady green light.
Depending on monitor I use, with Dell monitor I get steady amber and
alternating black screen and "no signal". With IBM monitor I get a
flashing amber and black screen.
But I guess the key is no BIOS screen at all, or steady green light.
Another broken MBRD gets a brief green light off the IBM monitor, but
no BIOS screen, and it soon goes flashing amber.


Clearly both these MBRDs aren't giving a signal. I'm interested in
where the fault lies, even though the MBRD is probably permanently
damage and needs to be replaced.

Would a POST card show me?

Or would it show me nothing since the MBRD isn't POSTing?

I know some POST cards are really expensive, so they must be some
use!! What use are they?

I tested the RAM, and it's ok.(that's no hassle, I wouldn't need a POST
card to test that). I suppose the problem could be the CPU, but I hate
replacing that, what with all the paste and cleaning the paste off.
Would a POST card tell me if the CPU is causing the problem?
And would a POST card tell me which part of the MBRD is broken? ('cos
i'm just interested)


Posted by Paul on January 10, 2007, 6:41 pm
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jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> I've got 2 MBRDs. Both have the same problem.
>
> They power up but I get no BIOS screen and no steady green light.
> Depending on monitor I use, with Dell monitor I get steady amber and
> alternating black screen and "no signal". With IBM monitor I get a
> flashing amber and black screen.
> But I guess the key is no BIOS screen at all, or steady green light.
> Another broken MBRD gets a brief green light off the IBM monitor, but
> no BIOS screen, and it soon goes flashing amber.
>
>
> Clearly both these MBRDs aren't giving a signal. I'm interested in
> where the fault lies, even though the MBRD is probably permanently
> damage and needs to be replaced.
>
> Would a POST card show me?
>
> Or would it show me nothing since the MBRD isn't POSTing?
>
> I know some POST cards are really expensive, so they must be some
> use!! What use are they?
>
> I tested the RAM, and it's ok.(that's no hassle, I wouldn't need a POST
> card to test that). I suppose the problem could be the CPU, but I hate
> replacing that, what with all the paste and cleaning the paste off.
> Would a POST card tell me if the CPU is causing the problem?
> And would a POST card tell me which part of the MBRD is broken? ('cos
> i'm just interested)
>

There are some Ebay sellers, who sell POST cards at reasonable prices.
You don't have to pay $100 a unit to get one. Hardware-wise, the cards
are pretty simple, and there isn't a good reason for them to be
expensive. The cheap ones come straight from Hong Kong:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Pc-Analyzer-main-board-Card-signal-error-post-code-bios_W0QQitemZ6883329271QQihZ013QQcategoryZ96869QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

The big question, is whether they typically tell you anything. I've
read people's reports from their use of a POST card, tried to look
up the POST code, based on the BIOS type they are using, and the
codes are not listed. A BIOS designer can use codes not in the list,
and then a POST card user will be getting useless info.

http://www.bioscentral.com/

Certainly, seeing "00" or "FF" on the display, tells you
no BIOS code is being executed, so I suppose that is some
consolation. But if you were hoping for a report like "your
XXX is busted", that hardly ever seems to happens. Examine the
POST code listings on bioscentral, and see if they are meaningful
to you. Then look for a cheap Ebay seller, if you want a good deal,
as buying a POST card at a local store, you'll pay "retail" for it,
if you can find one.

Paul

Posted by jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk on January 11, 2007, 4:41 am
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Paul wrote:
> jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> > I've got 2 MBRDs. Both have the same problem.
> >
> > They power up but I get no BIOS screen and no steady green light.
> > Depending on monitor I use, with Dell monitor I get steady amber and
> > alternating black screen and "no signal". With IBM monitor I get a
> > flashing amber and black screen.
> > But I guess the key is no BIOS screen at all, or steady green light.
> > Another broken MBRD gets a brief green light off the IBM monitor, but
> > no BIOS screen, and it soon goes flashing amber.
> >
> >
> > Clearly both these MBRDs aren't giving a signal. I'm interested in
> > where the fault lies, even though the MBRD is probably permanently
> > damage and needs to be replaced.
> >
> > Would a POST card show me?
> >
> > Or would it show me nothing since the MBRD isn't POSTing?
> >
> > I know some POST cards are really expensive, so they must be some
> > use!! What use are they?
> >
> > I tested the RAM, and it's ok.(that's no hassle, I wouldn't need a POST
> > card to test that). I suppose the problem could be the CPU, but I hate
> > replacing that, what with all the paste and cleaning the paste off.
> > Would a POST card tell me if the CPU is causing the problem?
> > And would a POST card tell me which part of the MBRD is broken? ('cos
> > i'm just interested)
> >
>
> There are some Ebay sellers, who sell POST cards at reasonable prices.
> You don't have to pay $100 a unit to get one. Hardware-wise, the cards
> are pretty simple, and there isn't a good reason for them to be
> expensive. The cheap ones come straight from Hong Kong:
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pc-Analyzer-main-board-Card-signal-error-post-code-bios_W0QQitemZ6883329271QQihZ013QQcategoryZ96869QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
>
> The big question, is whether they typically tell you anything. I've
> read people's reports from their use of a POST card, tried to look
> up the POST code, based on the BIOS type they are using, and the
> codes are not listed. A BIOS designer can use codes not in the list,
> and then a POST card user will be getting useless info.
>
> http://www.bioscentral.com/
>
> Certainly, seeing "00" or "FF" on the display, tells you
> no BIOS code is being executed, so I suppose that is some
> consolation. But if you were hoping for a report like "your
> XXX is busted", that hardly ever seems to happens. Examine the
> POST code listings on bioscentral, and see if they are meaningful
> to you. Then look for a cheap Ebay seller, if you want a good deal,
> as buying a POST card at a local store, you'll pay "retail" for it,
> if you can find one.
>
> Paul

thanks I guess the POST cards aren't so useful to me 'cos a beeping
computer is a doddle to diagnose anyway. I don't have so many beeping
computers to make it that useful. And if there' no BIOS booting then I
can see. No need for a code to say so ..

But what interests me is 2 MBRDs with te same problem. They power on
but don't boot the BIOS.. i'm wondering if it could have a common cause
,, common electrical problem. Or even the same problem on the MBRD, in
which case I may be able to be more informed and avoid it next time(if
it's the same problem), 'cos maybe there are some models that don't
have it, or maybe some device caused it. And it's good to know
anyway... How many common causes are there to have that effect? Is it
a really standard MBRD failure?

And would a POST card help with telling me if the reason it won't boot
is CPU ? 'cos I hate replacing that, that would save time if it could
do that. Though I don't get any beeps, it's not POSTing - how can it
without a CPU.. So maybe it never beeps when no CPU? I don't know.


TIA


Posted by kony on January 11, 2007, 6:05 am
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On 11 Jan 2007 01:41:24 -0800, "jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk"


>thanks I guess the POST cards aren't so useful to me 'cos a beeping
>computer is a doddle to diagnose anyway. I don't have so many beeping
>computers to make it that useful. And if there' no BIOS booting then I
>can see. No need for a code to say so ..
>
>But what interests me is 2 MBRDs with te same problem. They power on
>but don't boot the BIOS.. i'm wondering if it could have a common cause
>,, common electrical problem. Or even the same problem on the MBRD, in
>which case I may be able to be more informed and avoid it next time(if
>it's the same problem), 'cos maybe there are some models that don't
>have it, or maybe some device caused it. And it's good to know
>anyway... How many common causes are there to have that effect? Is it
>a really standard MBRD failure?

No, a failure to POST is an extremely common generic
classification that could have far too many causes to list.
While it is possible both boards have the same problem (and
odds of this might go up if the boards were virtually
identical), it isn't reasonable to assume without far more
evidence.

>
>And would a POST card help with telling me if the reason it won't boot
>is CPU ? 'cos I hate replacing that, that would save time if it could
>do that. Though I don't get any beeps, it's not POSTing - how can it
>without a CPU.. So maybe it never beeps when no CPU? I don't know.

A BIOS follows a sequence, and the post card tells you where
in the sequence it stops, but not what caused it to stop.
Therein lies the problem, a POST code can't tell you of many
of the most common board failures like a corrupt bios,
capacitor or other discrete component failure, physical
stress like cold solder joints, board cracks, tin whisker
shorts, ESD damage, etc, etc.

Because of the complexity of any semi-modern motherboard,
not much time can be spent effectively on single boards
failing. It works or it doesn't and if a fault isn't
visibly obvious (like vented capacitors or a burn mark on a
chip, knocked off resistor or something similar) there is
hardly a reasonable return from time it would take, let
alone the equipment it might as well.

FWIW, unless the system ran long term with a failed fan or
the heatsink fell off entirely while it was running (or an
attempt to start it, running merely means power applied, not
necessarily running the OS), it is far less likely the CPU
than motherboard. PSU might be 2nd most common... if you
had two identical systems (or PSU) the PSU might rise to
position of prime suspect, particularly if generic or other
retail/aftermarket came-with-case PSU.

Posted by jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk on January 11, 2007, 7:41 am
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kony wrote:
> On 11 Jan 2007 01:41:24 -0800, "jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk"
>
>
> >thanks I guess the POST cards aren't so useful to me 'cos a beeping
> >computer is a doddle to diagnose anyway. I don't have so many beeping
> >computers to make it that useful. And if there' no BIOS booting then I
> >can see. No need for a code to say so ..
> >
> >But what interests me is 2 MBRDs with te same problem. They power on
> >but don't boot the BIOS.. i'm wondering if it could have a common cause
> >,, common electrical problem. Or even the same problem on the MBRD, in
> >which case I may be able to be more informed and avoid it next time(if
> >it's the same problem), 'cos maybe there are some models that don't
> >have it, or maybe some device caused it. And it's good to know
> >anyway... How many common causes are there to have that effect? Is it
> >a really standard MBRD failure?
>
> No, a failure to POST is an extremely common generic
> classification that could have far too many causes to list.
> While it is possible both boards have the same problem (and
> odds of this might go up if the boards were virtually
> identical), it isn't reasonable to assume without far more
> evidence.
>
> >
> >And would a POST card help with telling me if the reason it won't boot
> >is CPU ? 'cos I hate replacing that, that would save time if it could
> >do that. Though I don't get any beeps, it's not POSTing - how can it
> >without a CPU.. So maybe it never beeps when no CPU? I don't know.
>
> A BIOS follows a sequence, and the post card tells you where
> in the sequence it stops, but not what caused it to stop.
> Therein lies the problem, a POST code can't tell you of many
> of the most common board failures like a corrupt bios,
> capacitor or other discrete component failure, physical
> stress like cold solder joints, board cracks, tin whisker
> shorts, ESD damage, etc, etc.
>
> Because of the complexity of any semi-modern motherboard,
> not much time can be spent effectively on single boards
> failing. It works or it doesn't and if a fault isn't
> visibly obvious (like vented capacitors or a burn mark on a
> chip, knocked off resistor or something similar) there is
> hardly a reasonable return from time it would take, let
> alone the equipment it might as well.
>
> FWIW, unless the system ran long term with a failed fan or
> the heatsink fell off entirely while it was running (or an
> attempt to start it, running merely means power applied, not
> necessarily running the OS), it is far less likely the CPU
> than motherboard. PSU might be 2nd most common... if you
> had two identical systems (or PSU) the PSU might rise to
> position of prime suspect, particularly if generic or other
> retail/aftermarket came-with-case PSU.

ok.. I mention CPU 'cos PSU is no hassle to change. If a POST card
could - by telling me where the process stops - tell me if my CPU is
causing the BIOS not to appear, then that'd help.. Could a POST card
tell me that?

i'm concerned that maybe a surge caused my MBRDs to fail. But, the PSUs
are still working, and no fuse went on the plugs. So I guess having a
surge protector wouldn't have made any difference

TIA


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