PSU question???/
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Posted by w_tom on November 27, 2005, 4:01 pm
Please log in for more thread options than sufficient. Kony said, "Measure the voltages with a multimeter under heavy load, ..." Without numbers from that measurement, then no one can provide accurate and additional answers. That Dell supply at 250 watts may be equivalent to many clone supplies rated at 300 or 350. mroctober wrote: | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Paul on November 27, 2005, 4:09 pm
Please log in for more thread options > I just got off the phone with Dell, and he CSR told me that my PSU is
> 250w. Anyway, it appears that my rig is running fine, but I just > wanted to ask here to see if I needed to upgrade. > > > Should I upgrade to a new PSU? > > > > Here are my rig specs: > > > Dell 8250 2.4 ghz > 768 ram ATI X800XT PE (AGP) > 120gb HD > PVR150 Audigy 2ZS Platinum > Logitech Z5300 > Viewsonic VX924 LCD I can see it is a 850E based motherboard here: http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/review/dell8250.htm An 850E based motherboard. Pg.79 has a power estimate. ftp://download.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/d850emv2/sb/a9439501.pdf Intel used these components in the following power estimate. 1.7 GHz Intel Pentium 4 processor with a 256 KB cache 128 MB PC800 ECC RDRAM AGP 4X/2X video card 3.5-inch diskette drive 11.5 GB IDE hard disk drive 36X IDE CD-ROM drive +3.3V +5V +12V -12V +5VSB Windows 98 SE ACPI S0 2.6A 2.3A 1.5A 0A 0.3 A Scratch the 1.5A on +12V. Recalculate the processor power. Leave the 3.3V and +5V estimates alone, as we cannot separate out the contributions of the various parts Intel used in their measurement. My estimate might be 10W on the high side. P4 2.4GHz/533Mhz Northwood. 59.4W 12V@5.5A at 90% efficiency http://processorfinder.intel.com/scripts/details.asp?sSpec=SL6RZ For 768MB via 4 RIMMs, 2x256MB + 2x128MB ? Takaman estimates about 4 watts a piece, from +5V. Since I'm unable to find any articles on how to calculate RIMM power consumption, I'll have to leave it at that. (I have a datasheet for a PC800 RIMM, but no industry standard formula mix for IDD1..IDD5) Time to total them up: +3.3V +5V +12V -12V +5VSB Base mobo (overestimate) 2.6A 2.3A ---- 0A 0.3 A Processor ---- ---- 5.5A ---- ---- Fans (estimate) ---- ---- 1.0A ---- ---- 4 RIMMs (conversion from +5V) ---- 3.2A ---- ---- ---- Hard drive (idling) ---- 1.0A 0.5A ---- ---- CD drive (low RPMs) ---- 1.0A 0.5A ---- ---- PVR150 (guess) 1.0A ---- ---- ---- ---- Audigy (guess) 0.5A ---- ---- ---- ---- X800XT PE (xbitlabs) 2.7 3.3 3.25 ---- ---- Total 6.8 10.8 10.75 (whatever) (Check label on side of PSU ^ ^ ^ for these current values ) / / / Total power estimate - 205 watts. <--- This tells you, that while the total power is not exceeded (250W supply), the power supply is running at a significant percentage of its rating. So, first check the three calculated current consumption numbers, against the label on the side of the supply. Chances are, the +12V output current is being exceeded. Even if you are able to meet the three current numbers, the supply is still getting a pretty good workout when you game. Another thing to keep in mind, is there is a gross mismatch between your processor and the video card. The video card will not be working too hard, because the processor will not be able to keep up. This will ensure the video card operates somewhere between the idle power numbers on Xbitlabs and the burn mode numbers. Thus, it won't really be burning up those 205W after all. Perhaps closer to 175W when you run 3DMark or a 3D game... Now that I know a bit more about your system, I think you may find it benches about the same as with your 9700. And yes, I got burned like that once on a system, bought the expensive video card, and found out I was so CPU limited, it bought me nothing. Oh, the frames rendered were a bit "smoother", but I was really no further ahead than before. When you upgrade, sometimes a lot of subsystems have to be upgraded to get anywhere. Your motherboard likely is limited to a max of a 3.06GHz/FSB533 processor upgrade, so there isn't much further for you to go with that motherboard. I'd be interested if you posted a 3DMark score, with the 9700 and with the X800XT PE, just to see if my hunch is way off or not :-) If you can find a shop that has a "clamp on DC ammeter", they can measure power consumption for you. I own one of those (cost me about $400 CDN at the time), and it is handy for figuring out if the PSU is going to be OK. It has some limitations on AC, though, and a Kill-A-Watt meter is a better fit for measuring total wall power consumption. (This is good for figuring out the power bill, but won't tell you the breakdown of +3.3, +5, and +5V. A nice and cheap meter, and used by some review sites.) http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/7657?cpg=wnrdf (This one clamps around the wires and measures the current flowing through the wires. You don't have to cut any wires or break any connections or anything. To measure AC in an extension cord, you need access to the individual wires, because the magnetic field around the hot and neutral cancels each other out otherwise.) http://www.extech.com/instrument/products/310_399/380947.html HTH, Paul | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by larry moe 'n curly on November 27, 2005, 10:52 pm
Please log in for more thread options mroctober wrote:
> I just got off the phone with Dell, and he CSR told me that my PSU is
> 250w. Anyway, it appears that my rig is running fine, > Dell 8250 2.4 ghz
> 768 ram ATI X800XT PE (AGP) > 120gb HD > PVR150 Audigy 2ZS Platinum > Logitech Z5300 > Viewsonic VX924 LCD A few years ago, C'T magazine measured the power consumption of systems running AMD XP2400+ CPUs and NVidia ti500 graphics cards, and the worst-case consumption was 190W. Another person measured the power drawn by his 64-bit Athlon 3000+ or 3100+ with a pair of 7200 RPM HDs, a pair of 10K RPM HDs, and 1-2 optical drives, and it never reached 400W from the AC outlet, which translates into about less than 300W from the PSU itself. Some Dells use proprietary PSUs, others use standard ones, and the best way to tell is by looking at the connectors. A standard ATX 20-pin power socket will have at least three orange or brown wires (+3.3V) while a Dell-proprietary PSU will have only one orange wire (Power-Good signal, but grey on standard ATX PSUs). Unfortunately the plastic connectors are identical, so it's easy to plug in the wrong type of PSU and do some permanent damage. Also those proprietary PSUs will have a separate 6-pin socket with 3 blue-white wires for +3.3V power. There are adapter cables that allow a standard ATX PSU to be used in place of a Dell proprietary one, such as this one: www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/dellconverter.html Dell PSUs are well-built. For example, here is "480W" Powmax Demon: http://static.flickr.com/31/67714368_1d8f91feb4.jpg?v=0 And here is a 200W Dell: http://static.flickr.com/28/67715167_9880b9e1c4.jpg?v=0 Notice how puny the heatsinks are in the Powmax and its high voltage filter capacitors are only 470uF, the same size as those in the 200W Dell. If you buy a replacement PSU, strongly consider something made by Fortron-Source Power because they make very good ones that sell for unusually low prices (NewEgg.com, Directron.com). Some of their brands are Fortron, Sparkle, Hi-Q, and PowerQ. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by DaveW on November 27, 2005, 7:20 pm
Please log in for more thread options Dell uses PROPRIETARY power supply units. I do not believe you can find a
more powerful replacement, though you would need one most likely for that video card. -- DaveW ---------------- > How can you tell if you are not getting enough power to your system?
> > > I have a Dell 8250, and it came with a ATI 9700. I recently upgraded > to the X800 XT PE. I was just wondering if I was getting adequate > power to my system. > > If not, can a Dells PSU be easily upgraded? And if so, which PSU would > you suggest I purchase? > > > thanks > | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by UCLAN on November 28, 2005, 12:12 am
Please log in for more thread options DaveW wrote:
> Dell uses PROPRIETARY power supply units. I do not believe you can find a
> more powerful replacement, though you would need one most likely for that > video card. As posted earlier: http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/power_supplies/selector/dell_index.htm | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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> 250w. Anyway, it appears that my rig is running fine, but I just
> wanted to ask here to see if I needed to upgrade.
>
> Should I upgrade to a new PSU?
>
> Here are my rig specs:
>
> Dell 8250 2.4 ghz
> 768 ram ATI X800XT PE (AGP)
> 120gb HD
> PVR150 Audigy 2ZS Platinum
> Logitech Z5300
> Viewsonic VX924 LCD