Newer Nvidia cards vs. older, reference to heat and fan speed/noise
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Posted by Clark on June 6, 2008, 5:36 pm
Please log in for more thread options high rate most of the time in the summer. Does anyone know if the newer PCI cards, 8s or 9s, are designed to run a little cooler thereby reducing the need for higher fan speeds? I am about to build a new computer and would like a little more quiet when not actually playing a game. I know I could cool this one better and cut the noise, but the new computer will be running in the same conditions as this one. Possibly there is a trade off between core clock or memory clock speed and cooling, so a card with a little slower core clock or memory clock might be quieter. Thanks, Clark | |||||||||||||
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Posted by kony on June 6, 2008, 7:54 pm
Please log in for more thread options One thingi that might help is improving the case ventilation. Putting in a front intake fan, cutting out fan grills if they're stamped into the wall of the case and restrictive (In both front and back), leaving the slot under the video card empty with that slot's rear case slot cover left off, and/or cutting out a hole in the side panel adjacent to the video card and putting a fan there (pref. 92mm or larger). >Does anyone know if the newer
>PCI cards, 8s or 9s, are designed to run a little cooler thereby >reducing the need for higher fan speeds? Some do, some don't. In general to achieve same performance level, yes it would produce less heat, though which heatsink is on it also determines how fast the fan has to run, and even with otherwise same heatsink the manufacturer might choose a fan with higher or lower max RPM which would effect the resultant speed at any particular card temp. >I am about to build a new
>computer and would like a little more quiet when not actually playing a >game. Choose a card with the open zalman-like heatsink fin design. For example, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121224 though I don't own this card, cannot guarantee how quiet it is even though it has the needed elements to reduce noise and claims low noise. The 9600GT is significantly faster than your present card. Something with a similar performance to yours would be 8600GT, though it may be a bit slower at past generations of games, and being a gamer I would suggest you will want more performance than 8600GT for (at least) near future games. >
>I know I could cool this one better and cut the noise, but the new >computer will be running in the same conditions as this one. Ok, but it can be built with better chassis airflow, especially if you are using a new case instead of being in a hurry to strip down the old case and rebuild with minimal system downtime then you have a better opportunity to do more modifications to a new case if it doesn't start out with enough airflow for your higher temp environment. >Possibly
>there is a trade off between core clock or memory clock speed and >cooling, so a card with a little slower core clock or memory clock might >be quieter. Yes given the same GPU and memory it would run cooler at low speed, but lower performance too - in 2D many cards now reduce their clockspeed for the lower heat already. Moving to a larger more powerful GPU in the same process size you will usually increase heat more than rasing clockspeed on the lesser GPUs, but these (Moving towards) higher end cards also may have better heatsinks. Put a tiny sink on a card and it's fan may need to spin just as fast as a huge sink on a card producing triple the heat or more. Given what your present card is I feel 9600GT is the right switch to make, along with the case cooling improvements. Those improvements will help keep everything else cooler too. | |||||||||||||
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Posted by Clark on June 6, 2008, 10:23 pm
Please log in for more thread options kony wrote:
>Choose a card with the open zalman-like heatsink fin design.
The card I have now uses a Zalman cooler. I was thinking the newer cards seem to have a built in exhaust that would vent the hot air out the back of the case. Even though I now have a large side fan blowing directly on my current video card, it still seems to run hot. I was thinking exhausting the air overboard would help the overall inside temp. I have been looking at the 9600 cards. I notice some cards run with faster core speeds, which is higher than standard, so I assume they are basically overclocked and might run hotter. I guess if I really want to cool the card, I would lower the temp in the house, but I am trying to save a little money. The temps in my area have been warmer, earlier than normal, so we may be in for one heck of a summer. I will look at the card you suggest. Thanks for the response, Clark | |||||||||||||
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Posted by kony on June 7, 2008, 11:16 am
Please log in for more thread options wrote:
>kony wrote:
> > >Choose a card with the open zalman-like heatsink fin design.
>
>The card I have now uses a Zalman cooler. Is the card actually running too hot, or is it just that the original nVidia throttling control for the fan was designed for the reference heatsink-fan, not redesigned for the zalman so it is spinning faster than it would need to in order to keep the card cool enough? The Zalman reference was basically about the open design rather than the closed ducted design, as it allows a thicker and often larger diameter fan which can spin at lower RPM. Plus, a different card generating less heat may make the same heatsink fan spin slower, "IF" it is calibrated and matched reasonably to that fan. >I was thinking the newer
>cards seem to have a built in exhaust that would vent the hot air out >the back of the case. That can make the rest of the system in the upper rear quadrant cooler, but that type tends to make at least as much noise if not more because of the fan type used. Heat dumped into the case and removed by the rear chassis fan can often be removed with less noise increase because it is a much larger, thicker fan requiring less if any RPM increase to remain at an acceptible chassis ambient temp. > Even though I now have a large side fan blowing
>directly on my current video card, it still seems to run hot. I was >thinking exhausting the air overboard would help the overall inside temp. It shouldn't be very hot in that situation, how high are your room ambient temps in worst case scenario? Don't get me wrong, it's going to get fairly high in temp being a 6800GT during gaming, but it shouldn't be nearly as hot otherwise, in 2D uses the fan should be throttling back quite a bit unless there is something wrong with the throttling circuit or they somehow dropped the ball and didn't implement one. >
>I have been looking at the 9600 cards. I notice some cards run with >faster core speeds, which is higher than standard, so I assume they are >basically overclocked and might run hotter. Yes, higher clocked cards would run hotter if all else were equal, and may also have a higher set GPU voltage making them run all the hotter, BUT the most important factor is still the specific heatsink and fan thereon. To give another example of a bad heatsink implementation, I have a 7600GT sitting on the desk which uses less than half the heat of a 9600GT, but it came with a small barely effective heatsink and so it's fan spun quite fast. I cut down an old socket 370 heatsink till it was short enough to fit, throttled back the fan on that till it was below 1000 RPM, and the card stays cool enough while remaining in audible once the case side panel is put back on. >
>I guess if I really want to cool the card, I would lower the temp in the > house, but I am trying to save a little money. The temps in my area >have been warmer, earlier than normal, so we may be in for one heck of a >summer. If you look at the other 9600GT on Newegg's site, there is at least one that is passively cooled. Normally I'd never suggest a passively cooled card for someone who has a higher temp environment but if you have a good side fan blowing mostly under the card (not up in the CPU region which is unfortunately all too common on modern cases) that should suffice in cooling it. You didn't mention whether your exhaust fans had an unobstructed airway nor their size. Just blowing in on the card leaves the other variable of the rate at which the exhaust air is expelled from the case, which also effects the intake air rate. Keep in mind that no matter what card you buy (assuming a gaming card from ATI or nVidia) you still have the option of underclocking it, including your present card. IIRC, it should offer the ability to reduce the 2D GPU clock speed while leaving the 3D speed higher, but I think it keeps the memory speed constant in both 2D and 3D. Since what you had mentioned was 2D noise, you might find that underclocking it by as much as possible has no significant effect on 2D uses, but a direct linear reduction in heat. Whether that would be enough to throttle back the fan I cannot say, in a good design it would but video card tech evolves so quickly which such short product lifecycles that nothing has much of a chance to mature before it is obsolete. On second thought I know what you need: 1) Camping tent 2) 1 roll duct tape 3) Portable air conditioner Put yourself and 1/2 the A/C in the tent, duct tape off all the seams and gaps. That way you stay cool too, without paying for whole house cooling. Let others in the tent for small favors or charge admission. ;-) | |||||||||||||
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Posted by Clark on June 7, 2008, 3:48 pm
Please log in for more thread options kony wrote:
> wrote:
> >> kony wrote:
>> >>> Choose a card with the open zalman-like heatsink fin design.
>> The card I have now uses a Zalman cooler.
>
> Is the card actually running too hot, or is it just that the > original nVidia throttling control for the fan was designed > for the reference heatsink-fan, not redesigned for the > zalman so it is spinning faster than it would need to in > order to keep the card cool enough? > > The Zalman reference was basically about the open design > rather than the closed ducted design, as it allows a thicker > and often larger diameter fan which can spin at lower RPM. > Plus, a different card generating less heat may make the > same heatsink fan spin slower, "IF" it is calibrated and > matched reasonably to that fan. > > > >> I was thinking the newer
>> cards seem to have a built in exhaust that would vent the hot air out >> the back of the case. >
> That can make the rest of the system in the upper rear > quadrant cooler, but that type tends to make at least as > much noise if not more because of the fan type used. Heat > dumped into the case and removed by the rear chassis fan can > often be removed with less noise increase because it is a > much larger, thicker fan requiring less if any RPM increase > to remain at an acceptible chassis ambient temp. > > >> Even though I now have a large side fan blowing
>> directly on my current video card, it still seems to run hot. I was >> thinking exhausting the air overboard would help the overall inside temp. >
> It shouldn't be very hot in that situation, how high are > your room ambient temps in worst case scenario? Don't get > me wrong, it's going to get fairly high in temp being a > 6800GT during gaming, but it shouldn't be nearly as hot > otherwise, in 2D uses the fan should be throttling back > quite a bit unless there is something wrong with the > throttling circuit or they somehow dropped the ball and > didn't implement one. > > >> I have been looking at the 9600 cards. I notice some cards run with
>> faster core speeds, which is higher than standard, so I assume they are >> basically overclocked and might run hotter. >
> Yes, higher clocked cards would run hotter if all else were > equal, and may also have a higher set GPU voltage making > them run all the hotter, BUT the most important factor is > still the specific heatsink and fan thereon. To give > another example of a bad heatsink implementation, I have a > 7600GT sitting on the desk which uses less than half the > heat of a 9600GT, but it came with a small barely effective > heatsink and so it's fan spun quite fast. I cut down an old > socket 370 heatsink till it was short enough to fit, > throttled back the fan on that till it was below 1000 RPM, > and the card stays cool enough while remaining in audible > once the case side panel is put back on. > > > >> I guess if I really want to cool the card, I would lower the temp in the
>> house, but I am trying to save a little money. The temps in my area >> have been warmer, earlier than normal, so we may be in for one heck of a >> summer. >
> If you look at the other 9600GT on Newegg's site, there is > at least one that is passively cooled. Normally I'd never > suggest a passively cooled card for someone who has a higher > temp environment but if you have a good side fan blowing > mostly under the card (not up in the CPU region which is > unfortunately all too common on modern cases) that should > suffice in cooling it. > > You didn't mention whether your exhaust fans had an > unobstructed airway nor their size. Just blowing in on the > card leaves the other variable of the rate at which the > exhaust air is expelled from the case, which also effects > the intake air rate. > > Keep in mind that no matter what card you buy (assuming a > gaming card from ATI or nVidia) you still have the option of > underclocking it, including your present card. IIRC, it > should offer the ability to reduce the 2D GPU clock speed > while leaving the 3D speed higher, but I think it keeps the > memory speed constant in both 2D and 3D. Since what you had > mentioned was 2D noise, you might find that underclocking it > by as much as possible has no significant effect on 2D uses, > but a direct linear reduction in heat. Whether that would > be enough to throttle back the fan I cannot say, in a good > design it would but video card tech evolves so quickly which > such short product lifecycles that nothing has much of a > chance to mature before it is obsolete. > > On second thought I know what you need: > > 1) Camping tent > 2) 1 roll duct tape > 3) Portable air conditioner > > Put yourself and 1/2 the A/C in the tent, duct tape off all > the seams and gaps. That way you stay cool too, without > paying for whole house cooling. Let others in the tent for > small favors or charge admission. ;-) The Zalman seems to run just about the same as the original cooler. I don't know the specs on this card as far as if it is over clocked or not, but I don't think it is. The air coming from the cooler does feel warm. The current fan will run at a slower speed if nothing is going on, but many things do cause it to increase it's speed. One thing I noticed when beta testing Vista, the card ran at a fast fan speed all the time, because Vista works it harder. I noticed ASUS has a non-fan cooled card. I wouldn't think that would be very efficient, unless there was some type of airflow over it. And I think you might be right about the new design because all those fans appear to be very small and can't move a lot of air without high speeds. Thanks, Clark | |||||||||||||
>high rate most of the time in the summer.