Is there a risk with firewalls?

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Dear Group,

I am asking a question regarding the time interval after startup of a PC and
the
time the firewall becomes effective.

The details are briefly as follows:

On my PC the startup contains the following sequence: first the DSL connect
is
started up, followed by my firewall. There is a gap in time between the two,
which
is being used to deposit a Trojan onto my system. The Trojan is detected by
my
Antivirus program and can be removed.

Question: Should a firewall not become effective BEFORE any connection to
the
internet is opened?? If this is true, are there any firewalls which will do
just that?

Thanks for any help
G.R.



Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?
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Why don't you have a NAT router between your internet service and your
PC?

--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
  drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?
Leythos,

Thanks for your quick reply. Would you please also tell me what a
NAT router is and what fuction it serves. I can probably find this info
by googling, but since you already know the context of my questions
your answer may be valuable.

G.R.
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and
connect
two,
by
to
do



Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?
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The NAT router would block inbound connections that you've not initiated
from your computer - this means that nothing on the internet would not
get into your computer unless your computer reached out to it first.

While not a firewall, many vendors call their NAT Routers firewalls. The
appliance provides this protection regardless of the state of your
computer.

--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
  drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?
Lethyos,

Thanks for your info.

I interpret it to mean that installation of a NAT router would protect
me from all incoming traffic until I deactivate it. Such deactivation might
take plase after the firewall is up and running.

Am I correct in the foregoing?

If I am correct, then under what names are NAT routers sold and what is
involved in installing them?

Finally why would firewalls not come up before DSL is running? Is there
a way to force DSL to come up first?

Thank you
G.R.


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Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?
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The NAT router will block inbound, unsolicited, traffic always, it
doesn't matter what you have on the network. So, you don't even need
your personal firewall once you have a NAT, as personal firewalls don't
protect people that don't understand them well.

Linksys, D-Link, Netgear, etc... They all make what they call firewalls
that are really NAT Routers - a couple of them make firewalls too. A
typical NAT device runs about $50 US.

--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
  drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?
Leythos,

Is the following the type of router an example of the device you mentioned
in order
to block unwanted access to a PC?

NETGEAR
RP614 4 Port Cable/DSL Web Safe Router Gateway 10/100 Switch
  Summary

  Features:
    a.. Unique Smart Wizard and Install Assistant make setup a breeze
    a.. Lightning fast cable/DSL Internet sharing with integrated 4-port
switch
    a.. NAT Firewall with VPN pass-through protects against hackers
    a.. Connects up to 253 network users
    a.. Parents may restrict and monitor access to inappropriate Web sites
    a.. Instant alerts and regular e-mail notification of browser activity
    a.. Free network cable, vertical stand and privacy software
Please let me know.

Thank you
GR.

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might



Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?
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Yes, as well as the Linksys BEFSR41, BEFSX41, BEFVP41, Dlink FVS-318 and
several others, and the D-Link DFL-700 which is as close to a firewall
appliance as you will find for under $250.

--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
  drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?

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Why would you want to dactivate it?

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No.


Netgear, D-link, Cisco, netscreen, AVM, ....

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You are the admin of your machine, you have control over the series of
events.

   Jens

Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?

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What firewall? What OS?

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Sounds fishy. I bet it's there from the very start. How do you make
sure it's actually "removed"?

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Yes.


Windows firewall does. But if you're infected already you can't rely
on anything anyway. Then all bets are off.

Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?

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Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?
First thank you for your reply    Straight Talk.

Next the answers to your questions are:  Win2000 Pro, Zone Alarm. Antivir
Guard is
installeld and up to date.

I know the following: the Antivir Guard tells me which file goes with the
Trojan. This file
is actuall there and was installed at the time of report. The Properties for
this file tells me
that the Administrator for the installation is my PC-designation. This file
has been created
numerous times and conisists of 8 letters, which are obviously chosen at
random and the
extension of the file is .exe.

This Trojan arrives shortly after the PC is turned. I am not sure, but it
may make its way after
the firewall is up. However one time it came in when the firewall still was
not up.

These are the essentials I can tell you and I am certain of them

G.R.

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Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?
NoSpam wrote:

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Eh... ZoneAlarm is no firewall. It's a host-based packet filter, and a
pretty lousy one. One should wonder why you even associate any notion of
security with it.

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Long story short: If your system is not secure without a "firewall", it
can't be sure with one either. And yours obviously isn't.

(And your postings headers provide even more evidence: You're abusing MSOE
as a newsreader.)

Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?
Dear Sebastian,

Your reply puzzles me. Why do you state that ZoneAlarm is no firewall? It is
sold as
and described as one and it is very widely used. Would you care to tell me
why you
consider it to be so poor.

It also puzzles me that you describe my system as not secure without a
firewall and
imply it should be. Is it not true that no system is secure without a
firewall?

You finally state that I am abusing something by using MSOE as a newsreader.
What is MSOE?

Greetings to Deutschland and Thanks for your interest
G.R.


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the
report.



Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?

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Ignore these doomsday idiots. They're overly paranoid schizoids. Nothing
is 'safe' enough for them.

I've been using Zone Alarm freebie for over 5 years and have never had
an 'intrusion' problem.  I update it each time they release an update.

With Zone Alarm and Kaspersky anti virus, I've never had a problem with
trojans or malware of any kind.

Zone Alarm freebie is simple and it works.

Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?
wrote:

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I have an equally effective solution, it's my "anti-malware rock", which
I keep sitting within 8' of my PC.  Since installing the rock, I haven't
been hit by any malware.

--
If quitters never win, and winners never quit,
what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"?

Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?
Hallo DevilsPGD, you wrote:

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And so on...

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*LOL*, good answer!
I don't try to use software from untrusted source (cert.org - homeusers
task 1), I keep my system and applications patched, I'm networking as a
restricted user, I don't offer (any |vulnerable) services to the
Internet, backing up my system, that's all.

Wolfgang

--
Nirgendwo hängt der Schulerfolg so stark von Einkommen und Vorbildung
der Eltern ab wie in D'land. Das dt. Schulsystem versagt bei der
Förderung von Arbeiter- und Migrantenkindern. (dpa/FTD 22.11.04)

Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?

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I've got a bottle of anti-virus pills on top of my CRT, no virus
problems since putting it there :-)

Juergen Nieveler
--
My software never has bugs... it just develops random features...

Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?

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I might have to try that if I ever need an upgrade to my anti-malware
rock.

--
If quitters never win, and winners never quit,
what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"?

Re: Is there a risk with firewalls?
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 00:53:27 -0500, herk@conic.net wrote:

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I think you are underestimating the skillsets of crackers.

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Probably right - but most  likely due to other factors than using ZAF.
I always carry my lucky charm and I've never been robbed.

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It probably works as coded - but did you actually test if it also
works as expected?

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