No, but lack of driving ability often if not usually leads to problems with their car.
Hell, most of the time the car won't tell you what's wrong either, but you don't neglect the symptoms unless you're an idiot.
You misunderstood, both comments were directed to the idea that the 'Average Home User' -not this particular argument with the OP- is to blame for not knowing all possible problems that could affect their computers. Cars are not sold as something that everyone should have, and that are something that needs no maintenance, that it is accident-proof, that you can go anywhere with it, etc. Computers are being sold as simple appliances.
Geo
'Problems with their car' does not imply driving ability. You are drawing the wrong analogy here. How about: 'The little light that comes on has no label of any sort, nor appears in the manual', or 'The car won't start, but the radio display says "Error 2987"'. On the locking analogy -a more appropiate one would be those expensive bicycle locks that was reported that could be open with a ballpoint pen. Was that the fault of the buyers?
Would you expect all car drivers to be able to rebuild their car's engines? I think the problem is in the way computers are marketed, and as it has been said, they are being sold as simple appliances.
Geo
Computers are NOT being sold as SIMPLE APPLIANCES, people just believe they are simple appliances. How many times do you see support articles in the news or on Usenet for Microwave Ovens?
Users (the ignorant and stupid ones) choose to look at computers as an extension of the calculator - buy one, use it, it works good, does more than they need, no need to read manual.....
I've run into people that didn't know that the cars oil should be changed
- ever - and they have blown engines to prove it. The same with Computers, and there are a heck of a lot more places you can find out about basic computer support than you can find information about Basic Car Maintenance (for anything with a computer controlling it).
People don't want to have to work for anything, don't want to have to learn some new fangled toy, don't feel they need to do anything until it bites them in the ass.
I've never called any one asking for help an Idiot, but to ask for advice, get great answers, ignore answers, and then complain about it, well, that's kind of idiotic if you ask me.
I don't actually have anything blocked, didn't even load the firewall component, and know that the machine is fully exposed to the local network, BUT I also have a full WatchGuard Firebox II sitting between this network and the Internet, and I have about 8 subnets with NAT routers behind the LAN side and 4 more on the DMZ size - all for isolation of groups and services. It was a choice to leave it open as I learn more about it, but open is subjective in this instance as being isolated from the net doesn't really expose it.
Sorry I had to cut the reply short, been very under the weather and it's hard to type all this with my cold/coughing.
You know, sorry to but in here, but, as we support people remotely all the time (that's my company business model), one of the first things I ask our clients to do when all-heck breaks loose is to reboot the computer, log back into the domain, try it again, if it happens again call right away, if not just send an email telling us about it for fault tracking logs.
Well, I am staying out of the discussion with the OP. I only meant to make a comment about the 'Average Home User'.
Geo
Yet, you can buy computers in Walmart, and many other large stores that sell home appliances; even order them by phone.
This is how I see them being marketed.
How often do you see articles on cars and trucks? The local newspaper has a weekly section on cars, none on computers.
Anything????
Cars have been around a lot longer yet....
And the book sections for car books used to be a lot bigger than the computer section until just a few years ago. When you start saying 'a lot more places', sounds as if you are including web pages, which would assume that one would have to be already using a computer.
Most people have limited time and energy, but the computer has become a 'tool' that everyone is expected to use. And with it being a rather complex tool .....
Geo
You're just making excuses. Most people DO NO REQUIRE a computer for their home or anything they do at home. Most people don't need email or web browsing, it's a convenience, but one that they don't respect like they do a Chainsaw or a Welder and don't even spend as much time learning about as they do their Home Theater system in order to connect it and make it operate properly.
A computer is complex, and everyone knows that why they buy it, but they still remain ignorant by desire and choice, not because it's "complex". Only lazy people look at complex as being a problem, others look at it as something to conquer/overcome and learn/enrich their lives from.
Maybe they can start handing out "Computer Stamps" instead of Food Stamps next.
Geo's car analogy is useful.
Anyone can buy a car. All cars are required to meet a raft of standards designed to protect the occupants, and other users of the roads, in the event the driver screws up. Public roads are similarly required to meet standards for the same reasons. However, since we are unable to design idiot proof vehicles and highways, society requires drivers to demonstrate some level of knowledge and proficiency before being granted the right to operate a vehicle in public. That right is granted subject to clearly documented responsibilities, and is revoked if the operator fails to discharge those responsibilities.
Anyone can buy a PC. PCs are not required to meet any standards beyond those pertaining to electrical safety and electromagnetic emissions, indeed software vendors are permitted to absolve themselves of all responsibility for the behavior of their products as a condition of license grant. The right to operate a PC on the public network is granted without restriction or obligation, and is irrevocable except in the context of a criminal conviction.
The AHU bought a PC after being bombarded with ease of use marketing from the likes of Microsoft - marketing that equates three green lights in Windows Security Center to safe computing, and never mentions responsible computing. Labeling the AHU 'terminally ignorant' simply because he has no interest in gaining a deeper understanding of the meaning and limitations of those three green lights is counterproductive. His interests and expertise lie in other domains.
Yes, the AHU is a problem - one that will not be eliminated, just as injury and death on the highways has not been eliminated.
Society will, however, gradually develop and impose workable standards, restrictions, and obligations on vendors, consumers, and infrastructure
- thereby containing the problem to generally tolerable levels without placing undue burdens on anyone. I encourage those with relevant expertise to contribute to this effort.
Triffid
They don't need a car, or a washer, or a dishwasher, ...
Do they need a phone? How about a TV?
Geo
With the new cars the user is dependant on the mechanics, and some of the problems with computerized cars only appear under very particular conditions, and the mechanics often have to wait until the problem is permanent before they can figure out what the problem is. I seem to remember some cars that had lights with no labels, and also some newer, computerized cars, that would show strange messages. You must be familiar with stories about people having problems communicating with the mechanics. How do you explain a noise?
Geo
You're reaching now - no, most people don't need a car, which is evidenced by the millions without cars that are still alive.
Just cut the crap and understand, if people are too stupid to care about the expensive purchase and it's protection then they deserve what they get. The path to understand is all around them if they just wake up.
I'm working on 12oz cans of Diet Coke :)
So, you would tell all those that can not rebuild their engines that they should not have a car? I'll let you tell them.
It seems to me that it is only lately that the media has stopped presenting only a glamorized image of computers. Do you remember when just a few years ago parents were worried that if their children didn't learn how to use a computer by second grade they would not be able to compete in the job market? I believe that many children are now required to use a computer to do their homework. Anybody with children?
Geo
Kerio is a good firewall, but it will anything permitted by the rules. It's possible that you opened a rigged webpage (Kerio will open the page becaude your rules allowed IE to access port 80.) Why Kerio failed is uncertain, possibly a virus or Trojan. I run Norton AV and sometimes will get a popup in the mail (which is why I now block HTTP mail). I also run Pest Patrol and a realy time antispyware detector. I still get spyware. But no Trojans or Viruses (that I'm aware of.) There is no 100% safe connection to teh internet. As soon as there is, someone will find a way around it.
Reload your firewall and carefully check the rules for holes. Run a real-time antitrojan, antivirus & antispyware programs.
Those who subscribe to the theory that market forces inherently result in the equitable resolution of society's problems are entitled to their position, and will inevitably be able to provide supporting examples.
However, society has reached the conclusion that regulation is sometimes necessary to ensure universal access to basic services - PSTN might be an appropriate example in the current context. Numerous governments consider internet access to be a basic service, but all are currently struggling to define a workable regulatory framework. Please consider contributing your practical expertise.
Triffid
And there you go - their kids and the parents didn't LEARN anything more than to "Use" it.
Like it or not, owning a computer has two considerations - use it and be unhappy with it since you didn't learn how to take care of it, or use it and learn how to take care of it so you can be happy with it.
There is no excuse for ignorance. Computers have been available to the masses since 76, that's almost 30 years, and if they didn't learn anything in all that time then it's their own dang fault.
Ignorant users are the reason for the mass spreading of worms on the net and other problems. Ignorant users are what fuels the home support market and keeps many small shops in business doing wipe/reinstall processes. Ignorance is a choice that many have opted for of their own accord.
I don't care if they own computers, but anyone stupid enough to get one compromised with ALL OF THE TECHNICAL RESOURCES AVAILABLE was just plain lazy.
This is not true - the ISP can and will yank a connection when the persons machine is infected and spewing crap onto the network. This happens as a means to protect the rest of the ISP's members from being black-listed.
Even my mother in-law was smart enough, after she was compromised, to know not to try it again until she learned a bit more about security and how to avoid the pitfalls of the net.
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