BIG PROBLEM - with firewalls sudden reboot

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I have an adsl modem/router  (usRobotics 9112)

When surfing the web, very often it happens Windows instantly reboots

- it happens on the very same sites,
- it happens every 4-5 sites, expecially "heavy" sites
with javascript, flash, activex...
- the sites I visit are secure, because they are istitutional,
magazines sites...).
- I have no javascript, flash, activex, animation, audio.... activated,
nothing at all.

- If I go with an old 56 kb analogic modem all is ok

----------------

I am with Windows98se

I notice that if I disabled my software firewall Norton 2002
there is no problem.

So I was sure it was a Norton 2002 firewall problem,
and tried six (=6) other firewalls
(OutPost, panda, zoneAlarm, atguard....)
but always had the problem,
so I don't think it is a software firewall problem.

---------------

What to do?

I phoned Robotics and they said it is not a modem problem.

Re: BIG PROBLEM - with firewalls sudden reboot
i suppose you are opening the websitesin IE ..
Did you updated the IS foe latest versions or tried installing or
reinstalling the IE again.


If you have norton then try disbling the norton and then try
connecting  to that sites again


Re: BIG PROBLEM - with firewalls sudden reboot

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i tried
IE    5.0   5.5    6.0
firefox 2.0

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if I disable or exit the firewall no problem occurs
but I want to use a firewall
I tried six of them, as told, all gave the same problem
and because of this pattern I'm no more sure it is a firewall problem



Re: BIG PROBLEM - with firewalls sudden reboot
a wrote:


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Very bad. Just visiting a website with IE is like offering an unlimited
remote shell. Your system might already be infected.

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So you actually want problems to occur? Then why do you complain?

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 > and because of this pattern I'm no more sure it is a firewall problem

Because of this pattern I'd say they're all very very broken.

Re: BIG PROBLEM - with firewalls sudden reboot
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Windows 9x is out of support. Upgrade your operating system.

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Well, that *does* suggest a certain course of action, doesn't it?

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Apparently the problem exists with all kinds of software firewalls, but
doesn't exist without a software firewall in place. Why would you believe
this is *not* a software firewall problem?

cu
59cobalt
--
"If a software developer ever believes a rootkit is a necessary part of
their architecture they should go back and re-architect their solution."
--Mark Russinovich

Re: BIG PROBLEM - with firewalls sudden reboot
On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 13:58:35 +0200 (CEST), Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers

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sure


because I hardly believe all these softwares are buggy

maybe it is the modem (nothing to do)

maybe it is about Windows98se settings  (I don't think Windows is buggy
otherwise all the world would have had the same problem; what to do?)



Re: BIG PROBLEM - with firewalls sudden reboot
Hi,

a schrieb:
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Prett easy: Upgrade to a more recent OS.
Don't install services, you do not want to offer.
If you need a Firewall, than have it on a different device.
Some modern routers are quite capable as packetfilters.
Do never work as Administrator or root.

Try to understand, what you do.

Cheers,
   Jens

Re: BIG PROBLEM - with firewalls sudden reboot
a wrote:

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you say it's ok with the 56k (dial up).  

USB DSL/ADSL modems do have an issue, i've often heard of people with
them losing their net connection and restarting windows.. It may help
to reinstall its drivers.  You could bypass the thing by using a 'home
router' instead of  the usb dsl modem.

I don't know if usb cable modems that that issue. But yours is ADSL,
that's common.


A google shows that the router you mentioned is a USB or Ethernet
router/modem. You didn't say that.
You could stick an ethernet PCI card in your computer, and not use the
USB aspect of your router, maybe even uninstall the usb router/modem
drivers.

It's unfortunate that unlike win xp. Win98SE doesn't come with a
firewall.  But if you use Volker's program
http://www.dingens.org/index.html.en you won't need a firewall
Either way, you won't be saved from a browser getting exploited.

Try the Opera browser

Re: BIG PROBLEM - with firewalls sudden reboot
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You don't need a firewall for Windows 98, and you don't need "Shutdown
Windows' servers" for it, too.

For Windows 98, just unbind any unneeded network service from the
external network interface by right clicking on the interface choosing
"Properties", and then doing it.

That's it.

Yours,
VB.
--
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Das Schälchen Weihwasser neben meinem Monitor auch nicht.
                                   (Bjoern Schliessmann in d.c.s.f.)

Re: BIG PROBLEM - with firewalls sudden reboot
On 02 Aug 2007 12:14:42 GMT, "jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk"

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I tried the USb way, and because it requires driver I also tried with
old and new drivers, always the same problem

I went back to the Ethernet way (that is my preferred choise because
faster)
and tried the plug in the motherboard VIA RIINE II
and tried the plug in PCI ethernet card (D-Link  DFE 538 tx),
always the same problem

I applied the 'ndis' fix called  243199itn8.exe  from Microsoft,
alway the same problem

I tried with  IE 5.0   5.5    6.0   and firefox 2.0
and honestly I don't want to install Opera

important note:
the same modem/router
on my second PC (AMD 500, while the first is Pentium 1600)
with the same windows98se
via USB and via Ethernet (on board)  all is ok
with IE 6.0 (little sub version differences:
6.0.02800 on second PC  and  6.00.2600.0000 on first PC)
with the same firewall software

so the problem is on my first machine,
but where?
SURELY, absolutely SURELY, I have NO virus in it

What is a 'home router' ?




Re: BIG PROBLEM - with firewalls sudden reboot
a wrote:

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you could try what volker says here about unbinding services. Then you
can uninstall your firewall



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Alot of problems aren't viruses, they can be bugs, one piece of
software clashes with another.

Another problem can be malware that even when removed, actually messes
up windows with it.

I have seen some malware that was probably broken, since it stopped the
computer accessing the internet.   (in retrospect, a command to reset
the tcp/ip stack might've fixed it, or maybe a program, liek winsock
fix or lsp fix. I've never tried them, it was win98) But that's just an
example of it messing with windows.

Another example is some malware I saw, where the user, and a techie
they hired, had perhaps made some attempt to remove it, but it had
taken some of windows with it.  I got installshield errors when
installing some software - happened to be a wireless modem driver.  I
tried reinstalling the installshield engine, as some sites suggested. I
then discovered that a trusted piece of software gave an error when
installing - that not normal at all.  So I knew I really had to either
do a win xp reinstall or a win xp repair. It's a standard diagnosis and
treatment!

There was a version of the ZoneAlarm firewall, which had a bug and
actually wouldn't uninstall. Users of ZA were yelling that it was worse
than any virus. THey may have released some long manual instructions
for removing it. But some reinstalled windows because of it.
  
There are endless examples, not necessarily internet related, where win
xp gets messed up.  Alot of that could be avoided if running in a LUA -
limited user account, rather than an administrative account.  That is
not possible in Win 98, AFAIK.    Win98 will get messed up just as win
xp can.

I think with win98, when you 'reinstall', it installs it over the
existing installation. It doesn't delete the original. So effectively,
it's like a win xp repair. (A win xp reinstall , i think, forces you to
delete the original. If you were running win xp, i'd suggest the win xp
repair option)

You may still want to back up your data first.

reinstalling win98 is a classic, just like repairing win xp, and even
reinstalling win xp !
 

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oh it's just some strange term i've seen used here sometimes. The
problem is that the box you have that some refer to as a 'home router',
is actually many things. NAT Router is maybe a more appropriate term
people here use.  It does Routing, NAT, has a DHCP Server in it, has a
(network) Switch in it, it has a modem in it.  I think those ports on
it are really ports of a network switch, not of the router. The routing
it does is very minor.  That NAT device thing typically only has 2
'arms', or networks rather. So doesn't have much of a decision to make.
(If it comes from the WAN side it's gonna be routed to the LAN side,
and vice versa!). It's still routing though.. And I think most use a
routing table.

I think, in industry, when people think of routers, they think of ones
like Cisco make, and those things have an ip on each port (a proper one
for the port, not like the one sent via DHCP to a comp connected to the
port). A few ports on the router.

Maybe before these mass market devices (could call 'em NAT Routers)
were produced for everybody, all routers did have that. It was the
classical router. So even if they don't think 'cisco', they still think
of routers like that. Not to say the NAT device isn't a router. But not
only does it do other things.. it's routing is so minimal. It's like..
Crocodile dundee when he says "thats not a knife. *this* is a knife!" I
guess everybody wants to be like mick dundee!
 
Most people don't give a damn about terminology. It's a problem.

Even serious manufacturers can obfuscate things. One, maybe Cisco,
found that their bridges weren't selling well 'cos they were busy
marketting their routers by telling people not to buy bridges. So when
they wanted to sell their bridges, they renamed them switches.  Their
switches are faster than their bridges because they were produced a bit
later, but functionally they do the same thing. Though Cisco material
does try to make some strange distinctions.

People have an agenda and don't care for terminology.. Even technical
people sometimes leave terms uncorrected if they know what is meant,
even if they know what was written is wrong - fine if the person
listening doesn't care. But the main culprits are marketting. It's a
big nuisance.
 



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Re: BIG PROBLEM - with firewalls sudden reboot
jameshanley39@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

<snip>

so as mentioned, you have 2 solutions.

one is a workaround, (stopping all servers and not using a firewall -
'cos with a firewall 'caused' the reboot)

and one solution. (reinstalling windows 98)   (if this works it'll
solve it completely and you can install your firewall)

if you take the windows 98 installation option, and don't know how,
then you may want to try a win98 / win9x newsgroup

microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion
alt.windows98

theres no alt.os. blah for windows 98. But anyhow. Any of those
newsgroups I mentioned are fine. Even alt.computer is fine, Most
regulars answering in any of those newsgroups will know how.






--


Re: BIG PROBLEM - with firewalls sudden reboot

I have a news:

I tried with  Seagate firewall
(see the recent "Comodo firewall conflict..." post)
and I had NOT the problem

so I tried with another firewall
a recent Norton 2004
and I had NOT the problem
(but with Norton  2002 I had)

What does these things mean?

but I dislike Seagate firewall because it is "poor"
and
I can not use Norton 2004 beecause  it is
too heavy (the boot phase increased 1 minute
and it slows very much every normal Windows activity
and eats memory a lot)



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Re: BIG PROBLEM - with firewalls sudden reboot
a wrote:

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That you can't expect broken software to always break your system that directly?

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Wow, what a technical opinion.

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Huh? They all do. That's what they're supposed to do.

Re: BIG PROBLEM - with firewalls sudden reboot
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BUGS and conflicts. You either workaround them, as you have, using
alternative software. OR you (perhaps delete), and reinstall windows
98 and see if that helps.

Or you stop servers. As mentioned. (though if you do that, you won't
gain the benefits of a software firewall, such as blocking at least
some outgoing that you want it to, and monitoring ports/tcp
connections)

You can't fix the bug directly unless you are the programmer that
wrote the software.

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It's SYGATE.

Not to be confused with Seagate that consistently across seasons and
years, make good but slightly hot hard drives.

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Try
alt.comp.freeware

When I tried these software firewalls long ago, I really liked Sygate,
it was a free version, before they got acquired or whatever by Kerio
and things got more complicated. Then it got ugly. It had a great port
monitor that I haven't found an alternative for.

It actually crashed the most recent machine I tried it on and I
haven't bothered to install it since.
(and sometimes when these things crash, you lose use of your internet
connection.. You retain it but can't send any outgoing. It blocks
everything. I've seen similar with norton too.)

Apparently it has some security issues - but that doesn't bother
everybody!

The older versions may be here
http://www.oldversion.com/program.php?n=sygate

If you don't like Sygate, try others. As I said, try that freeware
newsgroup.

And don't keep asking what has been answered. The answer won't change.
So at least question the answer. Don't reask the question.  Bugs/
software conflicts are what they are. They mean what they mean. You've
just diagnosed further what software conflicts, that's all your new
finding means.







Re: BIG PROBLEM - with firewalls sudden reboot

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Is your DSL plugged into a Ethernet adapter?  Is the Ethernet adapter on
your motherboard? You might be overtaxing your Ethernet adapter
(considering how old your system is (Win98se)). You could try replacing the
adapter with a PCI card, which shouldn't cost very much money - that is if
you can find one that will work with 98se...

Re: BIG PROBLEM - with firewalls sudden reboot
wrote:

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thanks,
please see the answer to jean

Re: BIG PROBLEM - with firewalls sudden reboot

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sorry to james


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