Alternatives to using a Personal Firewall

Well knowing that it is impossible to state a one-for-all solution here is some input on how to start getting along in a home windows environment without running a personal firewall.

It is certainly not complete, but feel free to add Your tricks to the list.

Note also that:

  1. The right things to do in the end depends on Your environment, habits and behaviour.

and

  1. There is no such thing as full security on the internet. Your level of security is something You come to a balance with, the key word being trust.

Okay, here we go:

  1. If possible put an NAT router/firewall device between Your internet-connection and Your PC.

It does filter out a lot of network traffic that is just pure noise, and it does provide a decent level of protection from "intrusion attempts" from the outside. If You are willing to invest a little money in security this is one of the best ways to do it.

  1. Disable unnescessary services

If directly connected to the internet, this part is *crucial*.

If behind a NAT router as suggested in point 1 however, this is less important as long as Your router does not forward any traffic.

The ideal would be of course if You can end up having no open ports at all. A PC configured like that can be directly connected to the internet just as safely as if You were using a personal firewall - and best of all, without all the noise from firewall pop-ups :-)

If You have a simple setup (like a stand-alone PC connected to the internet, without any special requirements other than normal surfing and mailing around) there are pretty straight-forward step-by-step guides available that can help You close all open ports on Your machine depending on the windows version You are running. Remember to check that Your ports actually are closed (the guide will probably tell You how to do that).

Otherwise search the internet for ways to close ports You don't need. (It's a good idea to write down which services You disable and how You do it. You might find that You need to reopen them again at a later time). Figuring out which services can be deactivated can be rather tricky. Search the net and seek help in relevant forums.

If for some reason You need to have services running (which should be the exception in most home environments), make sure that the software behind it is kept up to date (patched) which leeds us to the next item...

  1. Keep Your software pacthed.

This is true for windows itself as well as any other software You are running.

  1. Do not run programs You don't trust.

It may sound a little too simple, but it really is. Unless You have the source code and understand how to interpret it, there is NO way You can control what a programmer has decided to let a program do, so it all comes back to trust. If You don't trust the programmer or the program vendor, don't run it! The moment You run or install a program You have accepted to take a risk. It is just like driving a car. You know there is a risk, but You accept that risk in order to get quickly to point B.

If downloading programs from the internet, do it only from sources You trust.

  1. When surfing the web with Internet Explorer use it's zone-concept.

IE has a quite decent concept which allows You to regard any web-site You have not specifically acknowledged as being worthy of Your trust as unsafe. You do that by making sure You set the security level of the untrusted sites zone to the highest possible. That makes it quite safe to surf around. You will, as a consequence however, bump into a lot of sites that simply won't work properly under the high security level because only the simplest web-techniques are allowed to be used. As You go along You add the web-sites that You decide to trust into the trusted zone that has a much more relaxed level of security settings. An example: You will most likely not be able to do Your home-banking on a website classified as untrusted. But hey, if You don't trust Your bank's web-site why place Your money there in the first place. So You add that website to the trusted zone and from that on it works. I must admit that adding trusted sites to IE is a cumbersome job. But there are smart little apps available out there that will place buttons on Your explorer from where You can quite easily add or remove sites from zones. In the beginning when You have only a few trusted sites, surfing can be a pain, but eventually when You have added the sites You most frequently visit it actually starts to pay off.

Tip: I like SpywareBlaster. Why? Because it takes advantage of this build in facility by adding a list of known spy- and adware providing sites into Your list of restricted sites. Check it out.

  1. Before opening a mail that looks suspecious, think twice.

and when You are finished doing Your thinking, think once again. Don't open suspicious mails and don't open attachments unless You are confident what You do. Common sense is the most powerful firewall available.

I will stop here for now, well knowing that there are many issues left I have not covered.

I have only listed some tips on what to do, and generally not how to do it. Feel free to ask for further help or search the web for the info You need.

I know my tips aren't perfect, but I can say just as well as people in here are saying that they have been running PFW for years and not having problems that I have been surfing the net for years, WITHOUT resident anti-virus protection - WITHOUT resident spyware-protection and WITHOUT a Personal Firewall - without noticeable problems.

I ocassionally do scan my machines for viruses and other malware using free online scanners available. They seldom find anything but a few "suspicious" cookies.

Does that mean my machines are clean? - Impossible to tell, but at least I am not stressing my not too fast CPU's with unnescessary add-ons.

/B. Nice

Reply to
B. Nice
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Portable Firewall - Ethernet for data, USB for Power:

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I have no personal experience with it, but it seems like a good idea to use this when you're in the field/wild.

Reply to
Leythos

Oops, typo error: The untrusted (or restricted sites) zone normally is set at the highest already. What I meant was setting also the "Internet Zone" to the highest level of security.

/B. Nice

Reply to
B. Nice

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Duane :)

Reply to
Duane Arnold

B. Nice wrote: [IE]

Better don't trust into this zone concept of IE. The history shows us, that this is nothing one should trust in at all.

Yours, VB.

Reply to
Volker Birk

Good idea.

Please consider, that filtering is indispensable to filter, too. NAT is not enough, because it was not intended as a security feature, and often can be circumvented.

Yes. Not ideal, but very good.

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Very good idea.

ACK.

ACK.

Don't use Internet Explorer, but any other browser.

And don't use Outlook or Outlook Express.

Thank you for bringing good ideas to this group!

Yours, VB.

Reply to
Volker Birk

You may be right, but I have chosen to give it try (trust it), and surely I may get my but kicked at some time, but until now it has turned out to work well for quite a long time.

What else can You do? - Shift to another browser? - I have seen enough security patches released for the alternatives available too.

If You can't rely on the built in security concept of a product from the vendor responsible for Your very OS, what can You trust? You need to make some choices - otherwise You will end up getting paranoid.

A lot of users get compromised because they simply don't know the possibilities available to them.

If You can provide a link to further details about why the zone concept should not be trusted, I will be happy to learn.

/B. Nice

Reply to
B. Nice

On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 05:31:44 GMT, Duane Arnold

Reply to
B. Nice

B. Nice wrote: [IE]

Yes.

Yes. But I don't know other browser with so much flaws already in concepts.

I don't call you to use Microsoft's products, it' your choice ;-) No, really, Microsoft sometimes is a little bit strange. Some of their products seem to be very good, others seem to be very strange. Internet Exploder seems to be catastrophic.

The problem is, that it regulary is corrupted by some kind of cross site scripting. It just seems to be flawed at all, like ActiveScripting is and ActiveX.

Yours, VB.

Reply to
Volker Birk

I know You don't :-) And it is not that I have a preference to MS products, it is just that I prefer trying to use what I already have the way it was meant, before solving a problem by installing something new. And I as said, it has worked well. As soon as it fools me, it goes.

Maybe.

How does that show? - Will sites I have "banned" suddenly have unrestricted rights or something?

/B. Nice

Reply to
B. Nice

You are right. However, I will hold on to my claim that a properly configured NAT router with some firewall capabilities gives a home user a decent level of protection from incoming connection attempts.

And if by accident You install something on Your PC that opens an inbound port that You won't allow, You are not immediately exposed.

I hope the forum will help me suggest some good devices.

Okay, what would be the ideal, then :-)

Thank You for contributing!

/B. Nice

Reply to
B. Nice

I agree.

Yours, VB.

Reply to
Volker Birk

Something like that. For detailed information, I'd prefer Sebastian to explain, because he has had a very close look onto Internet Explorer's flaws.

What I can say is, that ActiveScripting and ActiveX are concepts, which should not be used in the Internet at all. And already therefore I would not use Internet Explorer, because I want to have i.e. Flash in my browser, but without implementing an interface for every COM object on my machine.

Yours, VB.

Reply to
Volker Birk

Thank you very much for taking the time and trouble to help us novices. I've tried to make constructive use of Sebastian's terse comments, but they seem to be directed to people with a lot more knowledge of operating systems than I have. Not only am I not an OS expert, but I don't have the time to take on another major hobby, which this seems to require.

The point I keep getting stuck at is the part about "disabling unnecessary services". On my machine right now, there are 109 services listed, of which 61 are running. In the past I've tried disabling various ones, and often discovered some time later that some application or other has stopped working properly. I never get an error message that the reason is due to a stopped service, so end up burning a lot of time discovering that, then figuring out which one(s) I have to restart. I see that I could easily spend a very great deal of time doing this "disabling unnecessary services" bit which the experts toss off as a trivial matter.

My main machine is behind a hardware router and is on all day every day. So far, nothing malicious has gotten in. So I'm satisfied with the security the router provides. Like some other folks who've commented here, I like to know what's "phoning home" and often prohibit it -- Windows Media Player, Windows Genuine Advantage Notification (every time I boot), PGP Tray, Real Player, and on and on. Windows (the MS DTC Console) even tries to call home every time I compile a VB program. This is maybe not a security issue, but neither is closing my window shades at night when everybody walking by can look in -- and I do that, too. A number of desktop firewalls give me the ability to stop at least some of this "phoning home".

My main concern is my laptop machine, which I take when I travel. It has ample opportunity to pick up malware from the various wired and wireless networks I connect to when on the road. Without the benefit of a hardware router, it needs some kind of protection. Like my other machines, I keep it backed up. But it would be a genuine nuisance if it picked up some malware then distributed it to the other machines on my home LAN when I brought it back and hooked it in. So a layer of protection beyond the router for all the machines on my LAN seems prudent. My laptop, like my home machine, isn't just an email-and-surfing toy, but one with a large number of applications and the need to be able to ftp files to and from my web site, download software and patches, and the like.

So, is there any methodical way to close ports and disable unneeded services other than try this and that and see what it breaks, and "Search the net and seek help in relevant forums"? When faced with the task of doing that for 61 running services and another bunch of automatic ones which can be started without my explicitly starting them, I'd just about as soon take my chances with a personal firewall. It has been adequate so far, Sebastian's constant derision notwithstanding.

Reply to
zzy

What I did some time ago was to use Black Viper's list of services and go thru that and try to see which ones I could safely disable or set to Manual. Here is a link to that info:

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His site is no longer, but you can find his work posted on various sites if you Google for "black viper" etc.

It is somewhat of a time consuming process though, and some trial and error is still involved. Generally, I tried to follow the above list and disable ones that didn't appear to be needed by other services etc. I changed one at a time and rebooted, and then checked my Event Viewer Logs for problems. If I saw errors in the logs, I then turned that service back on. Eventually (after quite some time) I was able to disable quite a lot of unneeded services without creating problems or generating errors in the logs. Unfortunately, if you disable them all at once and reboot, then there's no way of telling what's going on and which one is causing a problem. So it's a step by step process.

There may be other easier and/or more automated ways of doing it, but this is at least one way. Takes some research, and trial and error, but you can get there eventually..

Perhaps someone else has a quicker automated way of doing it...

Reply to
Kerodo

I get Your point. My idea was definately not to go through _all_ the services running, unless You are very sensitive to Your CPU usage. For a novice that will undoubtly lead to trouble with applications that suddenly won't work. Don't do that!

You just need to disable those services that are in a network listening state and that You don't need. I would like to be able to post links to good step-by-step guides but haven't done much googling for english ones. I have some very good guides that even a novice can use to harden his/her machine in less than half an hour. But unfortunately they are in my native language.

For me that does'nt make sense. If I don't trust the program vendor to be serious about my privacy I will not allow it on my machine. As PFW's are concerned, I personally would'nt install a big chunk of code just to be able to control "home phoning".

However, if it makes sense to You, that's fine. We are all different. As long as people don't put it into a security context claiming that they will prevent malware from doing nasty stuff it's fine with me. When malware is already run, damage is done. No matter what people claim. The hard but real trick is to prevent it in the first place.

If running TCP/IP on Your LAN, yes. In those cases I would recommend a simple packet filter like the windows firewall or as an alternative for non-XP's like W2K the CHX-I packet filter with "workstation" setup or, if You are a little techy, You could even configure the build-in IP filter. The reason I recommend those is, that they do what they are supposed to without asking silly questions.

Very good point. If You have it connected to Your LAN at home and ocassionally takes it outside there are special issue not covered by my guide. My guide, as posted, was targeted primarily at stand-alone machines with an internet-connection - which unfortunately was'nt too obvious. I am currently working on putting up a web-site with ground rules (or traffic rules) that even a novice should be able to follow. I am struggliing to make it very precise. But since english is'nt my native language it takes some time.

Yes. I will see if I can google You some good ones.

Very understandable.

Reply to
B. Nice

Please read Torsten's site at

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He even has a simple script to do the job for you.

Yours, VB.

Reply to
Volker Birk

B. Nice wrote: > On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 19:26:47 -0700, zzy wrote: > . . .

How do I tell which ones are in a network listening state?

Very noble. But Microsoft, for example, certainly isn't serious about users' privacy considering that the "Genuine Advantage Notification", MS DTC Console, Media Player, and other of their products phone home regularly without permission. I could be pure and stand on principle as you do and not allow any Microsoft software on my machine. (You must not have any on yours.) But I'm not willing to sacrifice my livelihood, which is primarily developing and selling Windows software, in order to be noble.

Again we differ in some basic values. But a question: How do you detect when an application or operating system component "phones home" without your permission, indicating that the vendor isn't serious about your privacy? I assume you don't use a PFW for this purpose, so what method do you use? I'd be happy to try it myself in place of the PFW.

Thanks again for all the help and good advice.

Reply to
zzy

A good guide will tell You both what to disable, how to disable and how to check if You have succeeded.

Reply to
B. Nice

I personally use netstat (dos command) or some third party products like Active Ports

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Reply to
B. Nice

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