Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N

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Greetings,

Out of the box, I set up the WRT120N router per instructions from the
manual.

Problems:
1. I need to power-cyle the router every 24 hours for the devices to
identify the hotspot, if I don't, the wired router function is fine,
but wireless function is dead.
2. The "Network Magic" software can't see the DSL modem behing the
router (including the command line ping <modem-ip> won't respond) so
effectively the router has some factory defaults to block certain
ports from the LAN to the DSL modem. However the nodes on the LAN are
able to see the internet (HTML through traffic is fine, SMTP is fine
etc.)

Is this is a known issue with WRT120N? Any firmware upgrades are
suggested? How to change the factory defaults on the port
configurations? If it is easier to exchange for another model that
would be my take instead of upgrades. The manual is a bare-min setup
intructions and I am lazy to look them up online.
Any responses are appreciated.

TIA
The e-mail on the header is a spam filter; please e-mail
rigconsulting2@[nospam]yahoo.com for direct responses.

Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N
On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 19:32:48 -0800 (PST), "R I G Consulting, Inc."

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Try the latest firmware from Linksys.  I got stuck with 2 of these at
remote mountaintop sites.  Both would hang erratically and loose some
services, much the same as what you're seeing.  Reducing the rather
large amount of port forwarding that was configured reduced, but not
eliminated the hangs.  I keep them running with a clock timer, that
power cycles the routers twice a day.  Yech(tm).

Another hint would be the crummy user ratings on various review sites.
The consensus is that it sucks:
<http://reviews.cnet.com/routers/linksys-wireless-n-home/4505-3319_7-33697852.html
<http://www.zdnet.com/reviews/product/routers/linksys-wireless-n-home-router-wrt120n/33697852
<http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-reviews/30900-linksys-cisco-wrt120n-reviewed
<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124344>
NewEgg has 111 reviews, almost all of which say it's a terrible
router.


--
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Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N
wrote:

(...)
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I noticed that one of the review on NewEgg mentioned that the WRT120N
is not "N" certified.  That appears to be correct:
<http://certifications.wi-fi.org/pdf_certificate.php?cid=WFA7283
<http://www.wi-fi.org/certified_products.php



--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N
I think I agree on the ratings...I might swap this for a Belkin
router, any suggestions on what would be good model with Belkin (or)
any other manufacturer model for that matter?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aside,

I did locate the cisco online support manual (their out of the box
manual is only an installation guide)
http://homesupport.cisco.com/en-us/wireless/lbc/WRT120N

Accessing the router web server at http://192.168.1.1 gives the config
page -- unlike the wired equivalent RT31P2 which I had earlier, this
router has some kind of soft switch for (PPoE) login into the modem
from the router which appears to be a new feature; contrast this with
prior models where once you logged on into the modem then connecting
the router inbetween the server and modem did not require you to learn
or change any settings on the router meaning that the factory defaults
on the modem just let the traffic thro unless you wanted to change
anything! The problem is, I do not know how to turn this feature off,
there is a Status | Login access to this feature on the router's web
onfig page, but it repeatedy fails. The ever first time I setup, I
used the desktop software "network magic" to connect, so effectively
this sw talks to the router to turn on the soft switch to allow
traffic. Now that I have direct access to the router config through
the web page, I thought I am better off, but even the original traffic
is not there now so I have to go back and setup the way I did from the
beginning out of the box.
And power cycle every 24 hrs!

TIA

Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N
On Tue, 8 Nov 2011 14:12:41 -0800 (PST), "R I G Consulting, Inc."

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I try not to recommend anything that I haven't tried myself.  I have
only a little experience with Belkin.  Mostly, their older stuff sucks
primarily because they don't bother doing updates to their firmware
beyond one or maybe two updates to the original release.  If there are
bugs, they tend to be permanent.  However, I will confess that I'm now
testing a Belkin F5D-8235-4 v2 router.
<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833314041>
It won't do all the nifty and tricky stuff that DD-WRT will do, but is
good enough for my office use.  Right now, it's moving a 7GB Mac DMG
file via wireless at about 25Mbits/sec.  When I switch to 100baseT
ethernet on the target iMac G5, it speeds up slightly to about
30Mbits/sec.  Not fabulous, but good enough for 2x2 MIMO.  In all, it
seems like a tolerable router.

However, the reason I'm testing it is that my customer complained that
it stalls streaming HD video from his NAS box.  I'm simulating his
setup and have not seen any such problems.  Since he went to Costco
and bought a newer model Belkin something, I guess this one is now
mine.


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The router does not "login" to the modem.  I presume you have a DSL
modem.  Since you're stuck with PPPoE, you have two choices.  Setup
your PPPoE login in the modem, and setup the router for DHCP on the
WAN(internet) port.  Or, you can setup the DSL modem for bridging, and
setup the PPPoE login in the router.  Both work.

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My problem is that you supplied everything except:
1.  What you're trying to accomplish?
2.  What you have to work with?  (i.e. type of service, type of
connection (PPPoE, PPPoA, DHCP, etc, model of DSL or cable modem, etc.
3.  What problem are you experiencing?  I prefer to supply the right
way to do things, rather than try to determine what you might be doing
wrong.

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Remove Network Magic.  Products containing superlatives, such as
magic, miracle, amazing, ultimate, advanced, super, etc rarely are as
good as their name suggests.  Network Magic tries to take control of
your connection.  You can either set things up using Network Magic and
let it GUESS what type of system you're running, or you can get rid
Network Magic, and just follow the instructions on your ISP's web pile
or in the docs for the various devices.  Doing both doesn't work.

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The router does not save your "original traffic" whatever that means.
I would not expect it to be there more than a few microseconds after
it is received.

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I would think that several hundred bad reviews would be sufficient to
convince you to abandon this router.  Every company has its losers and
the Linksys WRT120N is certainly a problem.  

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com               AE6KS

Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N
First off thanks for tuning in (into my problem), please read response
to
your question.

----------- start quote
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My problem is that you supplied everything except:
1.  What you're trying to accomplish?
2.  What you have to work with?  (i.e. type of service, type of
connection (PPPoE, PPPoA, DHCP, etc, model of DSL or cable modem,
etc.
3.  What problem are you experiencing?  I prefer to supply the right
way to do things, rather than try to determine what you might be
doing
wrong.
----------- end quote
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Getting rid of wired LinkSys router RT31P2 to wireless-N (as you
had nailed it is no
N) WRT120N. Everthing else remains the same. The LAN is connected to
the router, router
to the DSL Modem westell wirespeed A90-210030-40 (if that matters). I
am moving to wireless
so the iPhone etc can use the hotspot.
2. PPPoE
3. Old setup that works: With the wired router RT31P2, there isn't
anything like the router
logging into the modem. The way I usually setup is (a) connect the
Desktop directly to the modem and
login into the ISP to test the ISP connection Logged-on & ON. When
this step is tested
(b) introduce the RT31P2 between the desktop(s) and
modem and connect all the desktops VoIP phone etc to the router. (c)
When required, for example,
 incoming NetMeeting request from an associate, open the ports
NetMeeting on both the modem and router.
Or sometimes I just rid of the router and DMZ the IP for the main
desktop into the modem instead of hacking
my memory  recalling port numbers. I keep  the manuals for both, they
are REAL manuals and written WELL.

 New Setup: However in WRT120N it appears the default is for the
router to login into
modem, somehow browsing through the web config I can't turn this
feature off. So I thought
this mandates re-login so supplied the credentials to login thru the
web config so I tried login
it keeps failing. [Note that the moden in already in a LOGGED IN state
and the DSL connection is
on] At this point I rid of the router and connect my desktop directly
to the modem and everything is
fine (to test). I agree I should rid of the "nw magic" sw supplied,
but the thing is, the sw mimics the
login thro the router it fails too, except if I startover (powercycle
router and follow the sw instruction) as if
out of box and it is fine. So everytime I rid of the router and DMZ
with the modem (for whatever reason)
and put the router back for getting other desktops and devices to the
internet, I have a problem, the
router does not connect to the DSL modem and no internet (LAN
operation is fine so the router's
switching is fine)

To sum it up the problem I am experiencing is (1) need to power-cycle
for the wireless to work every 24 hrs
(2) startover the setup whenever I rid of the router and put it back.
When I say startover, following the step by
step instruction as directed by the "nw magic" sw which I want to rid
off. The reason why I suspect it is
using some kind of "soft switch" to turn the router (Not the switch)
ON. I presumed this switch
to be the "login into the modem" mandated by the router web config,
but it may not be. Coz' when
go the web config on the router and login it always fails.

I just put my old RT31P2 back and everything a OK (of course I do not
have wireless) -- until I figure
a solution for this so I can use the wireless feature.

TIA

Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N
Thanks for tuning in to the problem, answers below your question.

My problem is that you supplied everything except:
1.  What you're trying to accomplish?
**** Moving from wired to wireless router. Everything else is the
same. Desktops
connected to router and router to DSL modem (westell wirespeed)
2.  What you have to work with?  (i.e. type of service, type of
connection (PPPoE, PPPoA, DHCP, etc, model of DSL or cable modem,
etc.
**** PPPoE
3.  What problem are you experiencing?  I prefer to supply the right
way to do things, rather than try to determine what you might be
doing
wrong.
***** with the old setup, whenever I rid of the router and put it
back, no re-login,
no change to anything. It works like magic -- not really magic, the
router
retains  the config saved and restored -- even though power cycled.
***** with new setup 2 problems (1) need to power cycle every 24 hrs
for wireless to work (2) when ever I put the router back after
removing
it does not work, unless I start setup from the beginning using the
"nw magic" desktp
sw. I agree I need to rid of the sw, but it seems to turn on some soft
switch on the
router to connect to the modem (note the LAN switch function is ok,
just no access
to internet) I presumed this switch to be the " login to the modem"
feature on the router
but it is not, the login keeps failing when I try directly on the
router's web config.
This is frustrating since I want to rid of the sw.

Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N
I noticed Fry's is now selling Cisco branded routers in addition to
Linksys. As you know, Linksys sucked in the pre-Cisco days. Lots of
complaints on the net. After being owned by Cisco for a while, Linksys
seemed to be OK. Now you show they are selling junk again.

I can verify Linksys customer support is crap. You get the call center
in India and the responses are totally scripted. They won't look into my
router going into an unresponsive state when it gets too much wifi data.
Further, not only is there no new firmware update, but tech support told
me they will only provide new firmware to add a feature. There are no
bug fixes. To add insult to injury, they actually pulled the firmware
from their website, so if for some reason I needed to flash the router,
I'm SOL. The claim was a GPL violation existed in the firmware. Well
spend some freakin' money and get the rights to whatever was violated.

I hate Netgear. Their routers just out and out fizzle. D-Link seems to
be OK for a company that really doesn't design anything. It's all ODM,
just like Belkin, but they seem to have a decent ODM. [I'm only using
D-Link switches, not a wifi router.] A lot of Belkin gear has lifetime
warranties, which I've managed to use thanks to their crappy Chinese
OEM. I will admit Belkin sends you new shit to replace the broken shit,
only after you send them the defective item.

It may be to get a decent router these days, you have to buy the Cisco
branded gear. If the support on Cisco branded gear is in the US, I'd go
that route.

I haven't called D-Link in years, but in the day, their tech support
seemed to be domestic and competent.

In my call to Linksys tech support, it was suggested to first try a
different channel. I refused because that would mean setting up all my
wifi clients again. No amount of insisting I didn't have a comm issue on
the channel I picked would get me past step one on their script. I ran
kismet and knew all the signal strength of my neighbors and the channels
in use.



Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N

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I guess everyone has their own perspective, just like everyone loves a
certain brand of hard drive and considers all the rest junk. For me,
Linksys (pre-Cisco) was the best of the lot at that time. Netgear was
also fine, with D-Link solidly bringing up the rear. Other brands,
notably Belkin, didn't even rate a mention, in my book. As for Linksys
complaints on the net, I believe Linksys was by far the most popular
so it stands to reason they would have the most complaints. I'm sure
they also had the most satisfied users.

It's important to note a few things, as well. Every brand has its
stars and its clunkers, so it's not fair or correct to say a whole
brand name is junk. I'm guilty of that, too. Secondly, it can also
make a difference to separate the firmware from the hardware and
evaluate each on its own. If you can run 3rd party firmware such as
dd-wrt or Tomato or one of the other well-liked and well-known
flavors, then it doesn't much matter how bad the original firmware is
because you have an easy way to get around it.

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It's news to me that they no longer provide firmware on their website
or that they don't provide bug fixes, so I checked a random model, the
WRT54GL v1.1. While a quick glance didn't reveal multiple firmware
versions, the latest version was there and its release notes had a
fairly extensive list of bug fixes and nearly no new features. So much
for what they told you.
<http://homedownloads.cisco.com/downloads/WRT54GL_v4.30.15_FwReleaseNotes.txt>

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I have no experience with Belkin other than I've replaced a few dozen
Belkin routers with Linksys models over the years. Usually it was
because the Belkin had died, but more so lately it has been because
the customer wanted to go wireless.

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I don't see why changing channels on the router would mean squat to
the wireless clients. You don't get to specify the channel on the
client.


Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N

I decided to call the LinkSys support eventually when I have
patience to deal with them, but meanwhile I decided D-Link for
backup instead of Belkin based on the above feedback. Any
suggestions on D-Link router models based on what I intend to
do (explained in the posts above?)

TIA

Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N
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Things MAYBE might have improved
but D-Link used to claim Linux support on the box,
but M$ Explorer was required for some of the admin web interface
due to Explorer specific HTML and scripting.
I'm unsure if Safari users were similarly alienated.

The Belkin stuff I've encountered was definitely low-end:
few features, strange admin interface.

Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N
R I G Consulting, Inc. (for it is he) wrote:

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If you get something that can run OpenWRT or DDWRT, then at least you've got
a way out if the original firmware is a bag of shite.

--
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Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N
On 11/9/2011 12:48 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
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Some of my gear will not connect if the channel is changed. It might be
security in the client. My Logitech squeezeboxes for instance. It sees
something has changed, and figures you want to start from scratch.

Linksys pre-Cisco was dissed quite a bit on the net. Also not every
Linksys can use 3rd party firmware. I have a WRT330N.  Per the Cisco
website:
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Hey at least they are sorry. ;-) Like I said, there is a GPL violation
in the firmware, and the company is to f-ing cheap to pay off whomever
needs to be paid off. I weaseled that out of tech support, though with
more polite terminology.

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Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N

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I don't know what "start from scratch" means, or what it entails with
regard to a Squeezebox, but it doesn't surprise me that changing the
channel on the router causes the clients to drop. That sounds
completely normal. When you re-establish the wireless connection the
clients will (automatically) use the new channel. When tech support
suggested you try another channel, that sounds like excellent advice
to me. Not all forms of interference on the WiFi spectrum comes from
other WiFi devices so it won't necessarily show up with WiFi
monitoring tools. Lacking proper tools, trial and error is probably
your best bet.

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Yes, of course. They were, by far, the most popular brand out there
for quite a number of years and probably still are, so it stands to
reason that they would have the largest number of complaints. When
more people use something, that thing will generate a higher number of
complaints, but the picture changes dramatically when you consider the
number of complaints as a percentage of total number of customers. I
think that's the point you're missing.

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Of course. IMHO, it's a good idea, prior to making a purchase
decision, to determine whether that piece of hardware is supported by
3rd party firmware, but I understand that most people don't consider
that to be important or simply don't think that far ahead. Some of
them come to regret it later.

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Who do you think they should pay? Why do you think this is a case of
not wanting to pay someone?


Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N
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There is a GPL violation. Whatever it takes to undo that violation is
what Cisco needs to do. I assume that means a royalty, but I'm not a lawyer.

Changing channels was a moronic suggestion. I had no comm problem. As it
turns out, the problem was with the ISP.


Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N

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Hopeless.


Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N
On 11/10/2011 9:47 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
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Whatever. I guess this is all beyond your comprehension.


Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N
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GPL violations are usually failure to publish source.  Easy to
cure, just give the source to anyone who legitimately has the
device/binary and requests it.  Not at all easy to figure out to
whom you might pay a royalty.  The Linux kernel has hundreds if not
thousands of authors, all of whom would have to give you a separate
licence.  Virtually impossible, so delivering source is easier.

-- Robert



Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N
On 11/11/2011 2:32 PM, Robert Redelmeier wrote:
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So you think Cisco has some call it "sexy code" that they don't want to
publish so they just completely pulled the firmware? But the firmware is
out there, so wouldn't that mean the products in the field violate the GPL?

It would be interesting to go through the support website and see how
many routers for which they won't supply the firmware. Obviously a
tedious task.

Re: Cisco Wireless -N Home Router WRT120N
miso (for it is he) wrote:

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I suspect the vast majority of contributors wouldn't want one's money anyway
- after all there's a reason they made their contributions under the GPL in
the first place.

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My guess it was written by an ODM and they don't have the source in the
first place. Perhaps they've had to do some arm-twisting to get it
subsequently.

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<http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Cisco-settles-with-FSF-on-GPL -
violations/>

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