Grid-Battery "Hybrid" Tractors
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Posted by Bret Cahill on July 20, 2008, 1:08 pm
Please log in for more thread options technically legal to bring 8 pesos/litre [$3/gallon] fuel across the border from Mexico. If the tank isn't connected, customs wil seize the diesel and maybe even the vehicle. Even if it is connected, customs may give you a hard time. Supposedly a driver can earn $100 a trip running diesel in border areas but each border crossing takes an hour or so . . . It's a whole lot more cost effective to just electrify the #@!%&*! tractors and fields. A 1/2 mile long wire 10 - 20 feet above the ground only needs to be on one end of a quarter square. A fast discharge battery can be relatively small as the tractor only needs to go one mile for the round trip back to the wire. An on board ICE or battery trailer could be used to relocate the tractor any distance. As agriculture become more automated there won't be any reason for anyone to be in the tractor so no one will get bored as the tractor lingers for a minute or so charging up at the wire. If someone wants to ride in the tractor he can bring other work to do during recharge. Bret Cahill | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by John Larkin on July 20, 2008, 1:46 pm
Please log in for more thread options What sort of battery charges in a minute or two? And where would all that power come from, in the middle of a corn field? Do the math: say, 50 horsepower-hours: How much power to recharge in two minutes? What would the voltage have to be to keep the wire losses reasonable? How much do the batteries weigh? How much do the batteries cost? Ideas are cheap, as long as you ignore reality. John | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Paul E. Schoen on July 20, 2008, 4:13 pm
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> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Bret Cahill
> >>Supposedly if the tank is connected to the vehicle's engine, it's
>>technically legal to bring 8 pesos/litre [$3/gallon] fuel across the >>border from Mexico. If the tank isn't connected, customs wil seize >>the diesel and maybe even the vehicle. Even if it is connected, >>customs may give you a hard time. Supposedly a driver can earn $100 a >>trip running diesel in border areas but each border crossing takes an >>hour or so . . . >> >>It's a whole lot more cost effective to just electrify the #@!%&*! >>tractors and fields. >> >>A 1/2 mile long wire 10 - 20 feet above the ground only needs to be >>on one end of a quarter square. A fast discharge battery can be >>relatively small as the tractor only needs to go one mile for the >>round trip back to the wire. An on board ICE or battery trailer could >>be used to relocate the tractor any distance. >> >>As agriculture become more automated there won't be any reason for >>anyone to be in the tractor so no one will get bored as the tractor >>lingers for a minute or so charging up at the wire. >
> What sort of battery charges in a minute or two? And where would all > that power come from, in the middle of a corn field? > > Do the math: say, 50 horsepower-hours: > > How much power to recharge in two minutes? > > What would the voltage have to be to keep the > wire losses reasonable? > > How much do the batteries weigh? > > How much do the batteries cost? > > Ideas are cheap, as long as you ignore reality. I think this could also be accomplished by stringing a grid of wires over the field, and using a trolley that rides on the wires. It's not as simple as a locomotive or streetcar, where a single hot wire can bu used, and the return current through the tracks. But I think a system could be devised to provide electricity to a tractor by means of a controlled tether. It could definitely be done with a set of tracks that would move the supply line to be in-line with the movement of the tractor, and then have a trolley with a power cord that supplies the tractor. It would involve some engineering, initial investment, and maintenance, but should be about 95% efficient for energy conversion. Paul | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by John Larkin on July 20, 2008, 4:34 pm
Please log in for more thread options On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:13:02 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen"
>
>> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Bret Cahill
>> >>>Supposedly if the tank is connected to the vehicle's engine, it's
>>>technically legal to bring 8 pesos/litre [$3/gallon] fuel across the >>>border from Mexico. If the tank isn't connected, customs wil seize >>>the diesel and maybe even the vehicle. Even if it is connected, >>>customs may give you a hard time. Supposedly a driver can earn $100 a >>>trip running diesel in border areas but each border crossing takes an >>>hour or so . . . >>> >>>It's a whole lot more cost effective to just electrify the #@!%&*! >>>tractors and fields. >>> >>>A 1/2 mile long wire 10 - 20 feet above the ground only needs to be >>>on one end of a quarter square. A fast discharge battery can be >>>relatively small as the tractor only needs to go one mile for the >>>round trip back to the wire. An on board ICE or battery trailer could >>>be used to relocate the tractor any distance. >>> >>>As agriculture become more automated there won't be any reason for >>>anyone to be in the tractor so no one will get bored as the tractor >>>lingers for a minute or so charging up at the wire. >>
>> What sort of battery charges in a minute or two? And where would all >> that power come from, in the middle of a corn field? >> >> Do the math: say, 50 horsepower-hours: >> >> How much power to recharge in two minutes? >> >> What would the voltage have to be to keep the >> wire losses reasonable? >> >> How much do the batteries weigh? >> >> How much do the batteries cost? >> >> Ideas are cheap, as long as you ignore reality. >
>I think this could also be accomplished by stringing a grid of wires over >the field, and using a trolley that rides on the wires. It's not as simple >as a locomotive or streetcar, where a single hot wire can bu used, and the >return current through the tracks. But I think a system could be devised to >provide electricity to a tractor by means of a controlled tether. It could >definitely be done with a set of tracks that would move the supply line to >be in-line with the movement of the tractor, and then have a trolley with a >power cord that supplies the tractor. It would involve some engineering, >initial investment, and maintenance, but should be about 95% efficient for >energy conversion. > >Paul > Even better, build a solid roof over the entire field, and sheath the underside with conductive metal, like the bumper cars at the beach. Or how about a tower, with a laser or microwave beam aiming power at a collector array on the tractor? Or hang a cable to the tractor from a tethered satellite with solar cells. Or go back to using oxen. That will revive the whip business, creating many jobs. Life is so much more exciting without math. John | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Paul E. Schoen on July 20, 2008, 4:53 pm
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> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 16:13:02 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen"
> >>
>>message >>> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Bret Cahill
>>> >>>>Supposedly if the tank is connected to the vehicle's engine, it's >>>>technically legal to bring 8 pesos/litre [$3/gallon] fuel across the >>>>border from Mexico. If the tank isn't connected, customs wil seize >>>>the diesel and maybe even the vehicle. Even if it is connected, >>>>customs may give you a hard time. Supposedly a driver can earn $100 a >>>>trip running diesel in border areas but each border crossing takes an >>>>hour or so . . . >>>> >>>>It's a whole lot more cost effective to just electrify the #@!%&*! >>>>tractors and fields. >>>> >>>>A 1/2 mile long wire 10 - 20 feet above the ground only needs to be >>>>on one end of a quarter square. A fast discharge battery can be >>>>relatively small as the tractor only needs to go one mile for the >>>>round trip back to the wire. An on board ICE or battery trailer could >>>>be used to relocate the tractor any distance. >>>> >>>>As agriculture become more automated there won't be any reason for >>>>anyone to be in the tractor so no one will get bored as the tractor >>>>lingers for a minute or so charging up at the wire. >>> >>> What sort of battery charges in a minute or two? And where would all >>> that power come from, in the middle of a corn field? >>> >>> Do the math: say, 50 horsepower-hours: >>> >>> How much power to recharge in two minutes? >>> >>> What would the voltage have to be to keep the >>> wire losses reasonable? >>> >>> How much do the batteries weigh? >>> >>> How much do the batteries cost? >>> >>> Ideas are cheap, as long as you ignore reality. >>
>>I think this could also be accomplished by stringing a grid of wires over >>the field, and using a trolley that rides on the wires. It's not as >>simple >>as a locomotive or streetcar, where a single hot wire can bu used, and >>the >>return current through the tracks. But I think a system could be devised >>to >>provide electricity to a tractor by means of a controlled tether. It >>could >>definitely be done with a set of tracks that would move the supply line >>to >>be in-line with the movement of the tractor, and then have a trolley with >>a >>power cord that supplies the tractor. It would involve some engineering, >>initial investment, and maintenance, but should be about 95% efficient >>for >>energy conversion. >> >>Paul >> >
> Even better, build a solid roof over the entire field, and sheath the > underside with conductive metal, like the bumper cars at the beach. Well, the solid roof would block rain and sun, but a metal grid would work. However, the bottom conductive plate would not grow much corn. > Or how about a tower, with a laser or microwave beam aiming power at a
> collector array on the tractor? That is a horror movie waiting to be put on You-Tube > Or hang a cable to the tractor from a tethered satellite with solar
> cells. They are working on geosynchronous satellites on tethers that might make that a reality someday. > Or go back to using oxen. That will revive the whip business, creating
> many jobs. If the economy deteriorates enough, people may need to go back to a simpler way of life. We may need to take lessons form the Amish. Putting more people to work doing hard physical labor would be a good thing. Not so many bored, unhealthy kids (and adults) blowing off their excess energy and frustrations by driving aggressively and playing violent computer games. > Life is so much more exciting without math.
I think my idea has a chance to work. Probably more practical than batteries. Paul | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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>technically legal to bring 8 pesos/litre [$3/gallon] fuel across the
>border from Mexico. If the tank isn't connected, customs wil seize
>the diesel and maybe even the vehicle. Even if it is connected,
>customs may give you a hard time. Supposedly a driver can earn $100 a
>trip running diesel in border areas but each border crossing takes an
>hour or so . . .
>
>It's a whole lot more cost effective to just electrify the #@!%&*!
>tractors and fields.
>
>A 1/2 mile long wire 10 - 20 feet above the ground only needs to be
>on one end of a quarter square. A fast discharge battery can be
>relatively small as the tractor only needs to go one mile for the
>round trip back to the wire. An on board ICE or battery trailer could
>be used to relocate the tractor any distance.
>
>As agriculture become more automated there won't be any reason for
>anyone to be in the tractor so no one will get bored as the tractor
>lingers for a minute or so charging up at the wire.