Continuous Operation From Grid-Battery Tractors
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Posted by on July 28, 2008, 1:09 pm
Please log in for more thread options 2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or in some areas already below the cost of diesel. Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge every few minutes. 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for almost all farm operations. For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2 gallons of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric tractor, each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact wires at the ends of the field. When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U turn the outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can be picked up on the next lap. The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field when the left hand U turn is made. Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and recycled much less frequently than motor oil. If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective than replacing with diesel. There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of solutions. In the long run for some applications, it might be cheaper to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the grid, either by trolley wiring the entire field or with something like a pivot structure to deliver the power to a tractor. The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits at the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest easiest electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. It was just a way to get started. Bret Cahill | |||||||||||||
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Posted by John Larkin on July 28, 2008, 4:06 pm
Please log in for more thread options wrote: Have you presented these ideas to any actual farmers? John | |||||||||||||
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Posted by Rod Speed on July 28, 2008, 5:08 pm
Please log in for more thread options > On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:09:10 -0700 (PDT), BretCahill@peoplepc.com
> wrote: > >> Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. Battery cost is
>> 2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or >> in some areas already below the cost of diesel. >> >> Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy >> density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge >> every few minutes. 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for >> almost all farm operations. >> >> For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine >> equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2 >> gallons of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric >> tractor, each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact >> wires at the ends of the field. >> >> When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the >> left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U turn the >> outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can >> be picked up on the next lap. >> >> The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field >> when the left hand U turn is made. >> >> Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and >> recycled much less frequently than motor oil. >> >> If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective >> than replacing with diesel. >> >> There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of >> solutions. In the long run for some applications, it might be >> cheaper to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the >> grid, either by trolley wiring the entire field or with something >> like a pivot structure to deliver the power to a tractor. >> >> The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits >> at the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest >> easiest electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. It was just >> a way to get started. > Have you presented these ideas to any actual farmers?
Have a heart, you want them to die laughing ? | |||||||||||||
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Posted by John Larkin on July 28, 2008, 10:50 pm
Please log in for more thread options On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 07:08:26 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:09:10 -0700 (PDT), BretCahill@peoplepc.com
>> wrote: >> >>> Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. Battery cost is
>>> 2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or >>> in some areas already below the cost of diesel. >>> >>> Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy >>> density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge >>> every few minutes. 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for >>> almost all farm operations. >>> >>> For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine >>> equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2 >>> gallons of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric >>> tractor, each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact >>> wires at the ends of the field. >>> >>> When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the >>> left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U turn the >>> outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can >>> be picked up on the next lap. >>> >>> The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field >>> when the left hand U turn is made. >>> >>> Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and >>> recycled much less frequently than motor oil. >>> >>> If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective >>> than replacing with diesel. >>> >>> There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of >>> solutions. In the long run for some applications, it might be >>> cheaper to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the >>> grid, either by trolley wiring the entire field or with something >>> like a pivot structure to deliver the power to a tractor. >>> >>> The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits >>> at the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest >>> easiest electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. It was just >>> a way to get started. >
>> Have you presented these ideas to any actual farmers?
>
>Have a heart, you want them to die laughing ? > I've spent a little time on farms. Farmers are generally pretty inventive people, and are inclined to try all sorts of things to improve productivity or just have fun. It's impossible that some goodly number of them haven't already considered all sorts of options to save energy, electrically or otherwise. Bret hasn't filled us in on his experience with farming, or electrical engineering, or mechanical design. John | |||||||||||||
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Posted by Rod Speed on July 28, 2008, 11:55 pm
Please log in for more thread options >>> BretCahill@peoplepc.com wrote
>>>> Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. Battery cost
>>>> is 2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal >>>> to or in some areas already below the cost of diesel. >>>> >>>> Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy >>>> density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge >>>> every few minutes. 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density >>>> for almost all farm operations. >>>> >>>> For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine >>>> equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2 >>>> gallons of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the >>>> electric tractor, each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to >>>> contact wires at the ends of the field. >>>> >>>> When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the >>>> left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U turn the >>>> outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it >>>> can be picked up on the next lap. >>>> >>>> The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field >>>> when the left hand U turn is made. >>>> >>>> Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and >>>> recycled much less frequently than motor oil. >>>> >>>> If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective >>>> than replacing with diesel. >>>> >>>> There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds >>>> of solutions. In the long run for some applications, it might be >>>> cheaper to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the >>>> grid, either by trolley wiring the entire field or with something >>>> like a pivot structure to deliver the power to a tractor. >>>> >>>> The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits >>>> at the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest >>>> easiest electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. It was just >>>> a way to get started. >>> Have you presented these ideas to any actual farmers?
>> Have a heart, you want them to die laughing ?
> I've spent a little time on farms. Farmers are generally
> pretty inventive people, and are inclined to try all sorts > of things to improve productivity or just have fun. And tend to be pretty scathing about loons like Brat. > It's impossible that some goodly number of them haven't already
> considered all sorts of options to save energy, electrically or otherwise. Corse it is, particularly with the price of diesel what it is currently. Doesnt mean that they wouldnt die laughing at the Brat's hare brained scheme tho. > Bret hasn't filled us in on his experience with farming,
> or electrical engineering, or mechanical design. Its obviously zero. That stands out like dogs balls. | |||||||||||||
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>2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or in
>some areas already below the cost of diesel.
>
>Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy
>density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge
>every few minutes. 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for
>almost all farm operations.
>
>For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine
>equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2 gallons
>of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric tractor,
>each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact wires at the
>ends of the field.
>
>When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the
>left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U turn the
>outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can
>be picked up on the next lap.
>
>The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field
>when the left hand U turn is made.
>
>Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and
>recycled much less frequently than motor oil.
>
>If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective
>than replacing with diesel.
>
>There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of
>solutions. In the long run for some applications, it might be cheaper
>to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the grid, either
>by trolley wiring the entire field or with something like a pivot
>structure to deliver the power to a tractor.
>
>The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits at
>the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest easiest
>electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. It was just a way to
>get started.
>
>
>Bret Cahill
>