Re: Job Description
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Posted by Guy Macon on March 28, 2008, 6:20 pm
Please log in for more thread options Jim Thompson wrote: >On further contemplation, I can see it as returning to your models to
>see where they don't match the physical realization... I do it all the >time... refining models and macros. > >But calling it "regression" makes me ill... You appear to be ignoring repeated descriptions of what regression testing is. Is this because you disagree with the definition given? Regression testing tests functionality that previously worked as desired no longer working the same way as an unintended consequence changes in other parts of a design. Regression testing involves re-running all previously run tests as a batch and checking whether previously fixed faults have re-emerged. It is common in software development and, it appears, in Analog IC design. I am having a hard time figuring out why calling it 'regression' makes you ill. You are testing for regression (a feature that stops working after a certain event), so what's the problem with calling it regression testing? -- Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/>
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Posted by Guy Macon on March 29, 2008, 9:18 am
Please log in for more thread options Jim Thompson wrote: >
>Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote: > >>Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>
>>>Paul Hovnanian P.E. >>
>>>On further contemplation, I can see it as returning to your
>>>models to see where they don't match the physical realization... >>>I do it all the time... refining models and macros. >>> >>>But calling it "regression" makes me ill... >>
>>You appear to be ignoring repeated descriptions of what regression >>testing is. Is this because you disagree with the definition given? >> >>Regression testing tests functionality that previously worked as >>desired no longer working the same way as an unintended consequence >>changes in other parts of a design. Regression testing involves >>re-running all previously run tests as a batch and checking whether >>previously fixed faults have re-emerged. It is common in software >>development and, it appears, in Analog IC design. >> >>I am having a hard time figuring out why calling it 'regression' >>makes you ill. You are testing for regression (a feature that stops >>working after a certain event), so what's the problem with calling it >>regression testing? >
>I'm of the (very) old school ;-) "Regression" is fitting >an equation to a data curve. I am aware of that. The above is but one definition of the word "Regression", and not even the first definition in most dictionaries. Does it sicken you when other English words have multiple definitions, or just this one? Does the word "Linear" as used in art (a style of oil painting) or botony (a type of leaf) or electronics (a circuit or device having an output that is proportional to the input) also make you ill because the same word is used in the phrase "Linear Regression?" As for whether you are being old school, the etymology of the word "Regress" goes back to the Middle English / Anglo-French "regresse" and then back to the Latin "regressus / regredi." The usage "to go back" predates your preferred definition, which, if the references at the end of the Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_analysis are to be trusted, dates back to 1805-1809. >It appears that the new definition is "go back and
>tweak repeatedly until it works", then claim "engineered >all the way" >;-) Again, I am curious as to why you insist on replacing the dictionary definition with the above -- which you appear to have manufactured out of whole cloth. You didn't get the above definition from the job description that started this thread, and you appear to be actively avoiding standard English word definitions. Why? Here are some dictionary definitions. It would help if you at least acknowledged that you have read them, even if you totally disagree and wish to redefine the word. ----------------------------------------- From Merriam-Webster: Regression 1: the act or an instance of regressing 2: a trend or shift toward a lower or less perfect state: as a: progressive decline of a manifestation of disease b (1): gradual loss of differentiation and function by a body part especially as a physiological change accompanying aging (2): gradual loss of memories and acquired skills c: reversion to an earlier mental or behavioral level d: a functional relationship between two or more correlated variables that is often empirically determined from data and is used especially to predict values of one variable when given values of the others <the regression of y on x is linear>; specifically : a function that yields the mean
value of a random variable under the condition that one or
more independent variables have specified values 3: retrograde motion Derived terms: regression testing regression therapy (psychotherapy) linear regression nonlinear regression quantile regression regression to the mean ----------------------------------------- From Dictionary.com: regression -noun 1. the act of going back to a previous place or state; return or reversion. 2. retrogradation; retrogression. 3. Biology. reversion to an earlier or less advanced state or form or to a common or general type. 4. Psychoanalysis. the reversion to a chronologically earlier or less adapted pattern of behavior and feeling. 5. a subsidence of a disease or its manifestations: a regression of symptoms. regression -adjective 6. of, pertaining to, or determined by regression analysis: regression curve; regression equation ----------------------------------------- -- Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/>
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Posted by Guy Macon on March 29, 2008, 10:36 am
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Jim Thompson wrote: >The "job description" smacked of some hocus-pocus EDA for "designing".
I can't speak to "smacked of", that being purely subjective, but I once again note the multiple technical papers about regression testing of large analog IC designs that come up in a web search. Are they all hocus-pocus as well? >Here is an example of the BS I'm objecting to...
> >http://www.designers-guide.com/ > >It's EDA BS implying you can design without knowing your ass from a >hole-in-the-ground. > >If all you ever do is paste already-developed cells together... maybe. The above looks like typical marketing fluff designed to sell services to upper management -- tte ones who might actually hire them -- and not geared towards working engineers such as yourself -- who would never hire them no matter what they wrote. That says nothing about whether the underlying methodology is sound. Again, analog IC design is way out of my range of experience and I have no way to evaluate the actual methodologies they are touting, but I looked at the entire site and could not find anything "implying you can design without knowing your ass from a hole-in-the-ground", and such an interpretation seems to require redefining the phrase "Regression Testing." Can you tell me which section gave you that impression? -- Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/>
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Posted by Guy Macon on March 30, 2008, 4:48 am
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Jim Thompson wrote: >
>Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote: > >>Jim Thompson wrote:
>> >>>Here is an example of the BS I'm objecting to...
>>> >>>http://www.designers-guide.com/ >>> >>>It's EDA BS implying you can design without knowing >>>your ass from a hole-in-the-ground. >>
>>The above looks like typical marketing fluff designed to sell >>services to upper management -- the ones who might actually >>hire them -- and not geared toward working engineers such >>as yourself -- who would never hire them no matter what >>they wrote. That says nothing about whether the underlying >>methodology is sound. >> >>Again, analog IC design is way out of my range of experience >>and I have no way to evaluate the actual methodologies they >>are touting, but I looked at the entire site and could not >>find anything "implying you can design without knowing your >>ass from a hole-in-the-ground", and such an interpretation >>seems to require redefining the phrase "Regression Testing." >>Can you tell me which section gave you that impression? >
>Now I remember why you were plonked ;-) The last time you said you didn't like something I posted, I gave you a full apology and stopped doing it. You killfiled me anyway, leaving me at a loss as to what it takes to satisfy you. It will be interesting to see if history repeats itself. As happened last time, I am choosing to respond to your stated dislike of what I post by giving you what you appear to want, and will not ask any further questions of you or post any further responses to this thread or topic. If you require an apology, I am willing to give you that as well, but doing so would require some assistance to help me to understand why you dislike the above question so I know what to apologize for. -- Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/>
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Posted by Fred Bloggs on March 29, 2008, 11:10 am
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Jim Thompson wrote: > [snip]
> > Here is an example of the BS I'm objecting to... > > http://www.designers-guide.com/ > > It's EDA BS implying you can design without knowing your ass from a > hole-in-the-ground. > > If all you ever do is paste already-developed cells together... maybe. > > ...Jim Thompson "# You have analog designers creating control logic within the analog section." Good gawd...that's the kiss of death! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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>Paul Hovnanian P.E.