Bernie or Hansang Bae?

Are you guys still out there?

I have a friend who bought a Linksys router. He was having trouble with his last router, and I recommend he buy a good Cisco router since he is serious about his server, using comcast broadband I think, previously he said he was using T1. He is using Macs, but he has Unix set up as the server, so the problem is he wants to correct a problem he has, but has been unable to find the fix. First he bought a new cable modem, and then he bought a new router. I told him to get a good used Cisco router, but he went again for the cheap home network router I guess.

He lives in New Jersey, and states close by can bring up his site and pages, no problem, but people here in California like me, and other friends here

300 miles south have not been able to bring up his site either. Also oversees friends say they also have trouble bringing up his site. It seems to time out always. It tries to bring up the pages and then it times out like 404. The root page I can bring up, but there is not content on it anyway for a real test. One of his pages which has an interview on it with several photos always times out for me. I can ping and tracert, but it always seems to time out just near its source before. I completed a trace recently, but it stills had problems with his pages and such.

I am thinking this is a limitation of a cheap router, and doesn't have anywhere near the capabilities of a Cisco router. Would a bottom line used Cisco router be the fix? Is Linksys really able to route connections worldwide in robust manner? I wouldn't think so. This is basically the type I think that Good Guys or Best Buy sells.

Any clues on this, what the fix might be in his settings, or is this just the limitations of a cheap router?

thanks,

SM

Reply to
GoneBeforeMyTime
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I am neither Bernie nor Hansang Bae, but it's an intriguing problem, so I'll take a stab at it.

If users in "states close by can bring up his site and pages, no problem", then I doubt the problem is in the router - there is no difference in transferring content from a user one block away or one continent away - the router doesn't care.

I would be curious to know if the users who are able to access the content are all on the same provider's network, I.e. Comcast Cablevision. If the "cans" are on Comcast and the "can'ts" aren't, then it suggests the problem occurs when the traffic has to travel off-net.

Outside of an on-net vs off-net issue, it almost sounds like a regional routing issue, like the traffic is being subjected to poor routing, resulting in really high latency, resulting in content timeout. How many hops did your traceroute go through, and what kind of hop-to-hop intervals did you see?

Of course, anyone in this group who understands the issues better than do I, please feel free to jump in and flame me - I'm old enough & experienced enough to have developed a tolerance to heat, lol!

mjt

Reply to
Mike Tierney

I will ask for stats on this and get back to you ASAP.

22 hops

I posted the trace below. Also this is the root that comes up, and then the second address doesn not come up, but times out. Can you bring up the 2nd address from your location? I also tried the 2nd address from the public library and it was a no go. My friends in Italy and Holland say the link does not come up. Also I live near Yosemite, and my friends in Santa Barbara cannot bring up the link either, but the site is in New Jersey, and a friend in Altoona Penn, said it comes up fine.

Root...

formatting link

2nd...
formatting link

thanks, SM

Microsoft Windows 2000 [Version 5.00.2195] (C) Copyright 1985-2000 Microsoft Corp.

C:\\>tracert

formatting link
Tracing route to
formatting link
[68.39.19.174] over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 * * * Request timed out. 2 130 ms 130 ms 130 ms as-03.mariposa.sti.net [64.118.106.6] 3 121 ms 130 ms 130 ms 641181061.sierratel.com [64.118.106.1] 4 131 ms 120 ms 130 ms 6411898245.sierratel.com [64.118.98.245] 5 120 ms 140 ms 130 ms sl-gw25-stk-4-0-TS1.sprintlink.net [160.81.8.137 ] 6 130 ms 130 ms 140 ms sl-bb20-stk-8-1.sprintlink.net [144.232.4.217] 7 140 ms 140 ms 130 ms sl-bb20-sj-9-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.20.99] 8 130 ms 130 ms 130 ms sl-bb25-sj-13-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.3.198] 9 150 ms 140 ms 141 ms sl-st21-sj-12-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.9.240] 10 150 ms 141 ms 130 ms 144.232.9.206 11 210 ms 220 ms 211 ms tbr1-p012101.sffca.ip.att.net [12.123.12.17] 12 220 ms 210 ms 231 ms tbr1-cl1.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.10.5] 13 211 ms 220 ms 220 ms tbr2-cl22.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.9.134] 14 210 ms 221 ms 220 ms tbr2-cl3641.phlpa.ip.att.net [12.122.10.94] 15 200 ms 210 ms 211 ms gar3-p390.phlpa.ip.att.net [12.123.137.213] 16 211 ms 220 ms 220 ms 12.118.114.50 17 361 ms * 210 ms po-80-ar01.wallingford.pa.panjde.comcast.net [68 .86.208.30] 18 220 ms 200 ms 211 ms po-90-ar01.audubon.nj.panjde.comcast.net [68.86. 208.25] 19 201 ms 210 ms 200 ms po-90-ur02.audubon.nj.panjde.comcast.net [68.86. 210.177] 20 191 ms 200 ms 220 ms po-90-ur01.clementon.nj.panjde.comcast.net [68.8 6.210.213] 21 210 ms 210 ms 211 ms po-90-ur01.medford.nj.panjde.comcast.net [68.86. 210.209] 22 * * * Request timed out. 23 210 ms 200 ms 201 ms c-68-39-19-174.hsd1.nj.comcast.net [68.39.19.174 ]

Trace complete.

C:\\>

Reply to
GoneBeforeMyTime

Both these pages load in under 4 seconds ... and I'm in Australia using Telstra BigPond. As far as the router goes, as Mike said, it doesn't care where the final destination is ... in reality unless it's the final hop it doesn't really know.

There could be timeout issues with a low end router if it's struggling to keep up with the load but if it's at the end of a T1 that shouldn't be the problem.

I'd follow up on Mike's suggestion and find out where the "can's" and "cant's" are located and see if there's a comon denominator. Also confirm the actual HTTP response code. From Wikipedia ...

"he 404 or Not Found error message is an HTTP standard response code indicating that the client was able to communicate with the server, but the server either could not find what was requested, or it was configured not to fulfill the request and not reveal the reason why. 404 errors should not be confused with "server not found" or similar errors, in which a connection to the destination server cannot be made at all."

BernieM ... not the Bernie you were seeking though. He's the real deal ... especially when it comes to Frame-Relay.

Reply to
BernieM

Reply to
Mike Jones

Adding my post at bottom -- mjt

The home page loaded fairly quickly for me; the Gaggioli page not so quick, but it did load. I'm on AT&T ADSL (128k/768k) in Columbus, OH. So that, along with BernieM's results from Australia, tends to reduce the likelihood that this is an off-net issue or a regional routing issue.

BernieM had a good suggestion - ask your friend to take a look at the server itself and make sure it's not having issues, maybe with the requesting client? I'm running WinXP with IE7.0. But, fair warning - you'll need to jump to a MCSE group to follow that possibility! ;-)

mjt

Reply to
Mike Tierney

Yes, but I wonder about any possible limitations of cheap home style routers like Linksys versus a robust Cisco router with more features and better routing dynamics worldwide? Would you be surprised if he changed to a Cisco router and things cleared up? I mean Linksys, come on, hey?

There is certainly a time out issue. It's on a btroadband connection, cable modem with comcast. Previously he used a T1. However the page tries to load and then times out with server not found. Strange how the page continues to send packets after the server not found page is given. It still tries to load the data for at least a minute. I can see the leds on my hub blinking, so I know its still sending data. It finally gives up sending data about 2 minutes max after the page is given with server not found. At best in the past, once I was able to bring up the text but the photos never completely loaded, but would time out with half the photos loaded, but I haven't been able to bring anything up in months. Also my friends in Santa Barbara 300 miles away cannot bring up the pages, neither can my friends in Holland, Italy or Switzerland.

So that's pretty strange, hey?

Yes, divide and conquer.

Yes, its server not found, not 404, excuse me. But clearly packets have been sent, a good deal I would think, but the page always times out. Even the public library here which has a T1 cannot bring up his pages, so there are no problems with my end as a user.

Yeah, Bernie was smart guy, and Hansang doesn't seem to be around either. CCIE I believe. NRF might still be out there.

thanks, SM

Reply to
GoneBeforeMyTime

"GoneBeforeMyTime" ha scritto nel messaggio news:q9GdnQce_o9S5UfYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@sti.net...

Hi,

Both links open just fine and pretty fast ( ~92KB/s )

Following there are a traceroute and a pathping

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.0.254 2 48 ms 45 ms 46 ms 192.168.100.1 3 46 ms 46 ms 46 ms host148-193-static.20-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it [80.20.193.148] 4 55 ms 55 ms 54 ms r-mi258-r-ts21.opb.interbusiness.it [85.36.8.49] 5 54 ms 52 ms 53 ms r-mi226-crs-mi003.opb.interbusiness.it [85.36.9.101] 6 53 ms 52 ms 54 ms mil25-ibs-resid-15-it.mil.seabone.net [195.22.205.157] 7 143 ms 144 ms 144 ms sl-gw37-nyc-2-0.sprintlink.net [160.81.189.73] 8 144 ms 145 ms 145 ms sl-bb21-nyc-4-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.13.65] 9 146 ms 145 ms 145 ms sl-bb25-nyc-11-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.13.1] 10 149 ms 149 ms 149 ms sl-bb26-nyc-10-0.sprintlink.net [144.232.13.190] 11 145 ms 146 ms 145 ms 144.232.8.194 12 150 ms 150 ms 150 ms tbr1-p012204.sl9mo.ip.att.net [12.122.82.22] 13 150 ms 151 ms 150 ms tbr1-cl8.phlpa.ip.att.net [12.122.2.18] 14 152 ms 151 ms 152 ms gar3-p300.phlpa.ip.att.net [12.123.137.209] 15 150 ms 150 ms 149 ms 12.118.114.50 16 150 ms 150 ms 151 ms po-80-ar01.wallingford.pa.panjde.comcast.net [68.86.208.30] 17 153 ms 153 ms 152 ms po-90-ar01.audubon.nj.panjde.comcast.net [68.86.208.25] 18 155 ms 154 ms 154 ms po-90-ur02.audubon.nj.panjde.comcast.net [68.86.210.177] 19 151 ms 151 ms 152 ms po-90-ur01.clementon.nj.panjde.comcast.net [68.86.210.213] 20 154 ms 155 ms 154 ms po-90-ur01.medford.nj.panjde.comcast.net [68.86.210.209] 21 * * * Request Timeout.. 22 158 ms 158 ms 158 ms c-68-39-19-174.hsd1.nj.comcast.net [68.39.19.174]

------------------------------------

Hop RTT Lost/Sent= Lost pck/Sent=percent 0 192.168.0.100 0/ 100 = 0% | 1 1ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 192.168.0.254 0/ 100 = 0% | 2 44ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 192.168.100.1 0/ 100 = 0% | 3 44ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 80.20.193.148 0/ 100 = 0% | 4 51ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 85.36.8.49 0/ 100 = 0% | 5 51ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 85.36.9.101 0/ 100 = 0% | 6 175ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 195.22.205.157 0/ 100 = 0% | 7 143ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 160.81.189.73 0/ 100 = 0% | 8 147ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 144.232.13.65 0/ 100 = 0% | 9 150ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 144.232.13.1 0/ 100 = 0% | 10 153ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 144.232.13.190 0/ 100 = 0% | 11 145ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 144.232.8.194 0/ 100 = 0% | 12 --- 100/ 100 =100% 100/ 100 =100% 12.122.82.22 0/ 100 = 0% | 13 --- 100/ 100 =100% 100/ 100 =100% 12.122.2.18 0/ 100 = 0% | 14 --- 100/ 100 =100% 100/ 100 =100% 12.123.137.209 0/ 100 = 0% | 15 156ms 1/ 100 = 1% 1/ 100 = 1% 12.118.114.50 0/ 100 = 0% | 16 156ms 3/ 100 = 3% 3/ 100 = 3% 68.86.208.30 0/ 100 = 0% | 17 154ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 68.86.208.25 0/ 100 = 0% | 18 154ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 68.86.210.177 0/ 100 = 0% | 19 151ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 68.86.210.213 0/ 100 = 0% | 20 153ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 68.86.210.209 100/ 100 =100% | 21 --- 100/ 100 =100% 0/ 100 = 0% 0.0.0.0

Regards, Gabriele

Reply to
Gabriele Beltrame

Replies embedded - mjt

I'm using a Linksys DSL router, have had it for a few years, although I don't have any servers on the LAN, just a couple of PCs. I did have a couple of things your friend might check, though.

My Linksys has tabs for both dynamic and static routing - make sure that's all disabled. If those features are disabled, make sure there are no content filters. I doubt there are, since several people have been able to access the web pages: BernieM from Australia, Gabriele from Italy, Mike Jones from wherever, and myself from Columbus, OH.

My Linksys also has a log file for incoming and outgoing requests - can he enable that and see if your request is even getting to that router?

You really need to get away from the idea that a Cisco will route better than the Linksys. If the Linksys can get traffic to the Comcast cable modem, it can go anywhere in the world. Sure, they're low-end, but for most home users, they're more than capable.

Just to clarify - the ONLY change has been from T1 to cable, right? And while he was on the T1, none of these problems existed?

I doubt it's a bandwidth issue, since most cable providers hype the fact that their connections are even faster than T1.

This almost sounds like a client/server issue, but I assume you're not having these issues accessing other web sites.

Let us know what happens with my suggestions, above, but my sense is that we're running out of things to check. Sure, if all else fails, you can try to get your friend to buy a Cisco, but I would be surprised if that took care of these issues.

Good luck, though.

mjt

Reply to
Mike Tierney

What do you mean by "better routing dynamics" ... worldwide?

Yes I would be surprised but what model of Linksys are we talking about. I want to look up the specs.

Sorry i mis read the original post. I thought he was now using a T1. Are you able to confirm the duplex setting of the cable modem-to-router connection?

BernieM

Reply to
BernieM

It's nothing to do with 'routing'. A router connected to a cable modem doesn't even run a routing protocol ... it's working with a single default route.

"Throughput" is what's going to make the difference. What model linksys does he have?

BernieM

Reply to
BernieM

I am not Hansang Bae either, but I work for him in the real world, so I know what he would probably say. :)

This sounds like a classic Path MTU discovery problem. I would try lower> I am neither Bernie nor Hansang Bae, but it's an intriguing problem, so I'll

Reply to
Kristin Gorman

He is not home at the moment, so he can't get the model number, but I did ask. Perhaps when he returns home.

I'll ask.

thanks, SM

Reply to
GoneBeforeMyTime

Waiting for that answer.

T1 to cable, static to dynamic, but then back to static again, and he thinks an additional static will clear things up. He thinks the problem occured when he went from Static to dynamic IP. He says he obtained one static IP but he thinks the time out problem will be fixed if he obtains another static IP.

SM

Reply to
GoneBeforeMyTime

I have asked for that (model), but he can't get that number until he returns home. As for Linksys, Google turns up many links for problems with Linksys routers and various issues. Some have dumped them in favor of Netgear or something else. I found numerous links on connection and timing out issues, ect. Similar problems, so it wouldn't surprise me if the router had some issues, but I don't know, that's why I am here. Sure, I do question the performance of Linksys compared to Cisco. It is after all, just a cheap home router. Sure it works good for some, but not all, there seems to be issues with Linksys based on performance from what I have read.

thanks, SM

Reply to
GoneBeforeMyTime

thanks, SM

Reply to
GoneBeforeMyTime

"Mike Tierney" wrote in message news:2bPCh.12999$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...

He can control that at the server end, not the router. But yes, he will obtain a log when he gets back home.

I went to the library today. They do use a T1. Now while the Lynn G page loaded, it didn't load very fast, as someone else stated as well, but when I tried to load the two pages below, Andrea started to load and then timed out. When I click back it tried to reload the page, after clicking back and forth 4 times it finally loaded most of the page but then finally completely timed out. The Jeanson page loaded only once, but the some images loaded again, only half way. The result was the text was fully loaded, some images loaded fully and many other images only loaded halfway. At home when I tried on Lynn's page, it would time out with server not found, but the server continues to try to send data because I can see the leds on the hub flashing, so its like its still trying to load the page after the browser has timed out, very odd. I have never seen an effect like that in all my years of computing, at least I don't think so, not quite like that. It seems like some kind of latency issue, I guess. Its not a client issue, because his site is the only site I have trouble with besides Rochelle Gilmore, but we don't need to bother with her right now. Even though I am behind a firewall using Linux, networked from a Windows box to the Linux box, with the Linux box as the dialup connection, I have never had problems accessing other sites. Yes, that's right, stone age dialup, DSL is actually 5 dollars cheaper, but I haven't change yet. I only recentley obtained a version of Linux that could do connection sharing with DSL and still the firewall is another issue, but we are getting off topic here. Speaking of routers, I should have one myself! However the public library had the same problems as me pretty much, so the client issue is nill!!

SM

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Reply to
GoneBeforeMyTime

"Kristin Gorman" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

I use to chat with those guys all the time. Could be, he can't adjust anything remotely now. He will have to wait until he gets home, away from home shooting a wildlife series.

I posted this above, but again here.

I went to the library today. They do use a T1. Now while the Lynn G page loaded, it didn't load very fast, as someone else stated as well, but when I tried to load the two pages below, Andrea started to load and then timed out. When I click back it tried to reload the page, after clicking back and forth 4 times it finally loaded most of the page but then finally completely timed out. The Jeanson page loaded only once, but the some images loaded again, only half way. The result was the text was fully loaded, some images loaded fully and many other images only loaded halfway. At home when I tried on Lynn's page, it would time out with server not found, but the server continues to try to send data because I can see the leds on the hub flashing, so its like its still trying to load the page after the browser has timed out, very odd. I have never seen an effect like that in all my years of computing, at least I don't think so, not quite like that. It seems like some kind of latency issue, I guess. Its not a client issue, because his site is the only site I have trouble with besides Rochelle Gilmore, but we don't need to bother with her right now. Even though I am behind a firewall using Linux, networked from a Windows box to the Linux box, with the Linux box as the dialup connection, I have never had problems accessing other sites. Yes, that's right, stone age dialup, DSL is actually 5 dollars cheaper, but I haven't change yet. I only recentley obtained a version of Linux that could do connection sharing with DSL and still the firewall is another issue, but we are getting off topic here. Speaking of routers, I should have one myself! However the public library had the same problems as me pretty much, so the client issue is nill!!

SM

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Reply to
GoneBeforeMyTime

SM

Reply to
GoneBeforeMyTime

"BernieM" wrote in message news:45dc08d2$0$65927$ snipped-for-privacy@ken-reader.news.telstra.net...

I can't get the model number until he comes back from shooting a wildlife series.

My friend wrote this..

The MTU is set to 1500 on both the server and router. I will first get a second static IP address. My guess is that will fix all this.

As for me personally...

I posted this above, but again here.

I went to the library today. They do use a T1. Now while the Lynn G page loaded, it didn't load very fast, as someone else stated as well, but when I tried to load the two pages below, Andrea started to load and then timed out. When I click back it tried to reload the page, after clicking back and forth 4 times it finally loaded most of the page but then finally completely timed out. The Jeanson page loaded only once, but the some images loaded again, only half way. The result was the text was fully loaded, some images loaded fully and many other images only loaded halfway. At home when I tried on Lynn's page, it would time out with server not found, but the server continues to try to send data because I can see the leds on the hub flashing, so its like its still trying to load the page after the browser has timed out, very odd. I have never seen an effect like that in all my years of computing, at least I don't think so, not quite like that. It seems like some kind of latency issue, I guess. Its not a client issue, because his site is the only site I have trouble with besides Rochelle Gilmore, but we don't need to bother with her right now. Even though I am behind a firewall using Linux, networked from a Windows box to the Linux box, with the Linux box as the dialup connection, I have never had problems accessing other sites. Yes, that's right, stone age dialup, DSL is actually 5 dollars cheaper, but I haven't change yet. I only recentley obtained a version of Linux that could do connection sharing with DSL and still the firewall is another issue, but we are getting off topic here. Speaking of routers, I should have one myself! However the public library had the same problems as me pretty much, so the client issue is nill!!

SM

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Reply to
GoneBeforeMyTime

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