Where can EEs get "practical" classes to be better custom-ic designers?
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Posted by Electro Migration on February 1, 2008, 10:39 am
Please log in for more thread options If graduating electrical engineers wish to be considered proficient analog, mixed-signal, or RF designers using commercial tools, what are their options today? Here's what I can find so far by googling and asking of others: They start with an EE degree - then they ... - add 3-5 years on-the-job training (i.e., design, then lead 5-10 projects) - attend universities (e.g., MIT open university or UC Berkely extension) - take technical training (e.g., Besser Associates or SVTII) - build "in-house training" (e.g., hire consultants for custom classes) - follow "trade publications" (e.g., IEEE.org journals or EEdesign) - peruse "designer websites" (e.g., designers guide or analog ic design) - they ??? Given it would be nice to collect pointers on how to be a better analog, rf, or mixed-signal designer, the question is two-fold. (1) What other "options" are there for a custom-IC designer to improve their job-related skills? (2) Is there a great list of "practical" design classes, instructors, and materials available on the web that we could collect here? | ||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Electro Migration on February 1, 2008, 10:50 am
Please log in for more thread options I should clarify, I'm NOT looking for pointers on how to push buttons on tools - nor am I looking for more theoretical knowledge like that already given in countless universities - I'm looking for pragmatic design skills training to augment on-the-job training already given. That is, can you respond with a suggestion or two pointing to whatever people or material you know of that could help graduating EEs improve their job-related analog, rf, or mixed-signal DESIGN skills - outside their regular job? Where can custom-ic designers go to improve their design skills? | ||||||||||||||||
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Posted by The Master on February 1, 2008, 4:34 pm
Please log in for more thread options On Fri, 1 Feb 2008, Electro Migration wrote:
> I'm looking for pragmatic design skills
> training to augment on-the-job training already given. I know it's not what you are asking for, but I would like to ask new engineers to pay attention to their layout designers (assuming they don't do their own layout). I cannot tell you how many times I have been given a schematic, or series of schematics, that are darn near impossible to figure out. We have an on going joke about having to "break in" a new engineer, so they draw schematics properly. I've actually had one time where I was given a high speed digital datapath, but the schematics were drawn where each state was arrayed rather then one schematic for the entire path that's arrayed. In other words, I had schematics that was 20 inverters. Those 20 outputs went into another schematic, and were inputs for 20 nor gates... Seriously, I'm not making that up! | ||||||||||||||||
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Posted by sycochkn on February 1, 2008, 5:21 pm
Please log in for more thread options
> On Fri, 1 Feb 2008, Electro Migration wrote:
> >> I'm looking for pragmatic design skills
>> training to augment on-the-job training already given. >
> I know it's not what you are asking for, but I would like to ask new > engineers to pay attention to their layout designers (assuming they don't > do their own layout). I cannot tell you how many times I have been given > a schematic, or series of schematics, that are darn near impossible to > figure out. We have an on going joke about having to "break in" a new > engineer, so they draw schematics properly. > > I've actually had one time where I was given a high speed digital > datapath, but the schematics were drawn where each state was arrayed > rather then one schematic for the entire path that's arrayed. In other > words, I had schematics that was 20 inverters. Those 20 outputs went into > another schematic, and were inputs for 20 nor gates... Seriously, I'm not > making that up! > That is what orcad and the likes does. You still have to do a lot of manual editing to get it readable. Bob | ||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Kevin Aylward on February 2, 2008, 3:52 am
Please log in for more thread options Electro Migration wrote:
> Where can EEs get "practical" classes to be better custom-ic
> designers? > > If graduating electrical engineers wish to be considered proficient > analog, mixed-signal, or RF designers using commercial tools, what > are their options today? > > Here's what I can find so far by googling and asking of others: > > They start with an EE degree - then they ... > - add 3-5 years on-the-job training (i.e., design, then lead 5-10 > projects) > - attend universities (e.g., MIT open university or UC Berkely > extension) > - take technical training (e.g., Besser Associates or SVTII) > - build "in-house training" (e.g., hire consultants for custom > classes) > - follow "trade publications" (e.g., IEEE.org journals or EEdesign) > - peruse "designer websites" (e.g., designers guide or analog ic > design) > - they ??? > > Given it would be nice to collect pointers on how to be a better > analog, rf, or mixed-signal designer, the question is two-fold. > > (1) What other "options" are there for a custom-IC designer to improve > their job-related skills? > > (2) Is there a great list of "practical" design classes, instructors, > and materials available on the web that we could collect here? I actually have a problem with the word "training". To put it bluntly, my view is that if "training" to do analogue design is required, one will never be much good as an analogue designer. I can't say that I have ever had any "training" to do analogue i.c. design. The idea is that you learn and understand the basics that you were taught in university. e.g. http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html :-). That is, although there are a few bits and pieces here and there that may not be covered, the bulk is all volts and amps. The amount of new knowledge required is actually quite limited. Its applying what you should already know, e.g. cascodes, diff pairs, offset calculations, BW, stability etc, to construct circuits that matters. You analyse existing circuits, by *yourself* and figure out, by yourself, why things were done that way. If you can not figure out why something was done that way by yourself, you wont be able to design new circuits. Thats what "training" really is in my view. So, pick something to design. That is, find a full detailed spec for something, and try and design it in complete detail using Spice. That is how you learn design, by doing it. No amount of watching someone kick a ball, or telling you how to kick a about will turn you into a David Beckham. *you* need to the kick the ball. -- Kevin Aylward kaEXTRACT@kevinaylward.co.uk www.kevinaylward.co.uk www.anasoft.co.uk SuperSpice | ||||||||||||||||
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| Where can EEs get "practical" classes to be better custom-ic designers? | February 1, 2008, 10:39 am |
> their job-related skills?