Thoughts on AutoTRAX PCB layout software?
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Posted by billcalley on March 7, 2008, 10:16 pm
Please log in for more thread options I am thinking of buying AutoTRAX EDA (not the DOS Protel version!). I have demo'ed virtually every low-cost schematic/layout package* out there, and they all have certain issues -- some quite major. And while I'm use to working with Protel and PADS (which have issues too!), I cannot really afford those packages myself, but I was wondering if anyone has any feelings about AutoTRAX EDA, either pro or con, for professional board design. (I don't want to buy this package and find that it FUBARD up a $2,000 test board -- and made me look like a fool too!). The only major problem I found with this incredibly fair priced software would normally be a real deal breaker, which is it actually lets you delete nets and footprints in the PCB section after you import your schematic Netlist!! And not only that, it won't say anything about your deletion when you run the DRC! But I figure that if I know about that truly bizarre issue, I can be on the lookout for it. Any thoughts on using AutoTRAX EDA for professional PCB design (so far, to me, it seems to be the best of the low-cost packages...)? Thanks! -Bill *Eagle, Easy-PC, DIPTrace, KICAD, CADint, PerformanceEDA, etc. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Brad Velander on March 8, 2008, 1:02 am
Please log in for more thread options No comments on AutoTrax EDA but it seems that you are somewhat confused in general about EDA packages. Almost every EDA package will allow you to delete existing footprints and connections in one form or another from your PCB design. Specifically two of the ones mentioned, PADs and Protel/DXP/AD. And they will not complain during the subsequent DRC check. The check for connection and part completion is to utilize whatever ECO/check process to check against the original schematic, ensuring that all the circuit and intended connections are still there. Then the DRC checks the physical implementation of those circuit nets and footprints for PCB design issues. How can the PCB DRC check something that you have deleted? -- Sincerely, Brad Velander. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by billcalley on March 8, 2008, 2:46 am
Please log in for more thread options > Bill,
fused
> =A0 =A0 No comments on AutoTrax EDA but it seems that you are somewhat con= > in general about EDA packages.
nts
> =A0 =A0 Almost every EDA package will allow you to delete existing footpri= > and connections in one form or another from your PCB design. Specifically
t
> two of the ones mentioned, PADs and Protel/DXP/AD. And they will not > complain during the subsequent DRC check. The check for connection and par= > completion is to utilize whatever ECO/check process to check against the
> original schematic, ensuring that all the circuit and intended connections= > are still there. Then the DRC checks the physical implementation of those
> circuit nets and footprints for PCB design issues. > =A0 =A0 How can the PCB DRC check something that you have deleted? > > -- > Sincerely, > Brad Velander. > > > > > > > Hi All,
>
> > =A0 =A0I am thinking of buying AutoTRAX EDA (not the DOS Protel
> > version!). =A0I have demo'ed virtually every low-cost schematic/layout > > package* out there, and they all have certain issues -- some quite > > major. =A0And while I'm use to working with Protel and PADS (which have > > issues too!), I cannot really afford those packages myself, but I was > > wondering if anyone has any feelings about AutoTRAX EDA, either pro or > > con, for professional board design. =A0(I don't want to buy this package= > > and find that it FUBARD up a $2,000 test board -- and made me look
> > like a fool too!). =A0The only major problem I found with this > > incredibly fair priced software would normally be a real deal breaker, > > which is it actually lets you delete nets and footprints in the PCB > > section after you import your schematic Netlist!! =A0 And not only that,= > > it won't say anything about your deletion when you run the DRC! =A0But I=
> > figure that if I know about that truly bizarre issue, I can be on the
o
> > lookout for it. > > =A0 =A0Any thoughts on using AutoTRAX EDA for professional PCB design (s= > > far, to me, it seems to be the best of the low-cost packages...)?
>
> > Thanks!
>
> > -Bill
>
> > =A0 =A0 =A0*Eagle, Easy-PC, DIPTrace, KICAD, CADint, PerformanceEDA, etc=
.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text - Thanks for the response Brad. Much appreciated, but I am not confused at all. Taking PADS as an example, there is no way on earth you can just hit the delete key and get rid of a footprint or net at will!! The only way you can do that is via ECO mode only. I have used quite a few versions of both Protel and PADS through the years, and unless they were all "setup" differently than your versions, I simply could not hit the delete key on accident on anything that was in the original schematic and simply get rid of it! I wonder why we have had two different experiences with these exact same PCB packages? Thanks Again, -Bill | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Brad Velander on March 8, 2008, 4:27 am
Please log in for more thread options Hi Bill,
Okay, maybe you are not confused at as low level as I might of suspected initially. But I have been using Protel & DXP for getting close to a decade now. I can delete anything at any time by highlighting/selecting it and hitting Delete or Shift-Delete. The only thing that will catch any error I have created thus, is a PCB update or netlist compare to the original schematic, no DRC check catches it. And there is nothing to set that allows this behavoir in Protel or DXP (now AD I can't be sure of, we haven't paid the ransom for those versions yet. But I expect little/no change in this manner.). I can guarantee you these actions for P98, P99SE and DXP versions. Can't remember his first name at the moment but if Mr. Bennet is monitoring S.E.C. at this time he could back me up on that, as he uses Protel extensively also. The last thing we do before saving a finished PCB, try running Update PCB from the schematic to make sure nothing has been accidently lost or changed since starting layout of the PCB. ( The easiest way to lose something in Protel is to forget that you had it selected, then select something you want to delete and delete them both without knowing it. You quickly get into the habit of doing "X", "A", to 'Deselect All' after almost every action, but there are still times that you may forget and delete or move things you didn't want to delete or move.) Yes you are right about the PADs, you must be in the ECO mode but then you can still delete anything and the DRC won't catch it afterward without some schematic interaction to restore the connectivity/footprint deleted. I had used PADs for a large chunk of the 90s. -- Sincerely, Brad Velander. > Bill,
> No comments on AutoTrax EDA but it seems that you are somewhat confused > in general about EDA packages. > Almost every EDA package will allow you to delete existing footprints > and connections in one form or another from your PCB design. Specifically > two of the ones mentioned, PADs and Protel/DXP/AD. And they will not > complain during the subsequent DRC check. The check for connection and > part > completion is to utilize whatever ECO/check process to check against the > original schematic, ensuring that all the circuit and intended connections > are still there. Then the DRC checks the physical implementation of those > circuit nets and footprints for PCB design issues. > How can the PCB DRC check something that you have deleted? > > -- > Sincerely, > Brad Velander. > > > > > > > Hi All,
>
> > I am thinking of buying AutoTRAX EDA (not the DOS Protel
> > version!). I have demo'ed virtually every low-cost schematic/layout > > package* out there, and they all have certain issues -- some quite > > major. And while I'm use to working with Protel and PADS (which have > > issues too!), I cannot really afford those packages myself, but I was > > wondering if anyone has any feelings about AutoTRAX EDA, either pro or > > con, for professional board design. (I don't want to buy this package > > and find that it FUBARD up a $2,000 test board -- and made me look > > like a fool too!). The only major problem I found with this > > incredibly fair priced software would normally be a real deal breaker, > > which is it actually lets you delete nets and footprints in the PCB > > section after you import your schematic Netlist!! And not only that, > > it won't say anything about your deletion when you run the DRC! But I > > figure that if I know about that truly bizarre issue, I can be on the > > lookout for it. > > Any thoughts on using AutoTRAX EDA for professional PCB design (so > > far, to me, it seems to be the best of the low-cost packages...)? >
> > Thanks!
>
> > -Bill
>
> > *Eagle, Easy-PC, DIPTrace, KICAD, CADint, PerformanceEDA, etc.- Hide
> > quoted text - >
> - Show quoted text - Thanks for the response Brad. Much appreciated, but I am not confused at all. Taking PADS as an example, there is no way on earth you can just hit the delete key and get rid of a footprint or net at will!! The only way you can do that is via ECO mode only. I have used quite a few versions of both Protel and PADS through the years, and unless they were all "setup" differently than your versions, I simply could not hit the delete key on accident on anything that was in the original schematic and simply get rid of it! I wonder why we have had two different experiences with these exact same PCB packages? Thanks Again, -Bill | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Leon on March 8, 2008, 10:08 am
Please log in for more thread options > Hi Bill,
> Okay, maybe you are not confused at as low level as I might of suspected > initially. > > But I have been using Protel & DXP for getting close to a decade now. I > can delete anything at any time by highlighting/selecting it and hitting > Delete or Shift-Delete. The only thing that will catch any error I have > created thus, is a PCB update or netlist compare to the original schematic, > no DRC check catches it. And there is nothing to set that allows this > behavoir in Protel or DXP (now AD I can't be sure of, we haven't paid the > ransom for those versions yet. But I expect little/no change in this > manner.). I can guarantee you these actions for P98, P99SE and DXP versions. > > Can't remember his first name at the moment but if Mr. Bennet is > monitoring S.E.C. at this time he could back me up on that, as he uses > Protel extensively also. The last thing we do before saving a finished PCB, > try running Update PCB from the schematic to make sure nothing has been > accidently lost or changed since starting layout of the PCB. ( The easiest > way to lose something in Protel is to forget that you had it selected, then > select something you want to delete and delete them both without knowing it. > You quickly get into the habit of doing "X", "A", to 'Deselect All' after > almost every action, but there are still times that you may forget and > delete or move things you didn't want to delete or move.) > > Yes you are right about the PADs, you must be in the ECO mode but then > you can still delete anything and the DRC won't catch it afterward without > some schematic interaction to restore the connectivity/footprint deleted. I > had used PADs for a large chunk of the 90s. > > -- > Sincerely, > Brad Velander. > > > > > > > Bill,
> > No comments on AutoTrax EDA but it seems that you are somewhat confused > > in general about EDA packages. > > Almost every EDA package will allow you to delete existing footprints > > and connections in one form or another from your PCB design. Specifically > > two of the ones mentioned, PADs and Protel/DXP/AD. And they will not > > complain during the subsequent DRC check. The check for connection and > > part > > completion is to utilize whatever ECO/check process to check against the > > original schematic, ensuring that all the circuit and intended connections > > are still there. Then the DRC checks the physical implementation of those > > circuit nets and footprints for PCB design issues. > > How can the PCB DRC check something that you have deleted? >
> > --
> > Sincerely, > > Brad Velander. >
> > > > > Hi All,
>
> > > I am thinking of buying AutoTRAX EDA (not the DOS Protel
> > > version!). I have demo'ed virtually every low-cost schematic/layout > > > package* out there, and they all have certain issues -- some quite > > > major. And while I'm use to working with Protel and PADS (which have > > > issues too!), I cannot really afford those packages myself, but I was > > > wondering if anyone has any feelings about AutoTRAX EDA, either pro or > > > con, for professional board design. (I don't want to buy this package > > > and find that it FUBARD up a $2,000 test board -- and made me look > > > like a fool too!). The only major problem I found with this > > > incredibly fair priced software would normally be a real deal breaker, > > > which is it actually lets you delete nets and footprints in the PCB > > > section after you import your schematic Netlist!! And not only that, > > > it won't say anything about your deletion when you run the DRC! But I > > > figure that if I know about that truly bizarre issue, I can be on the > > > lookout for it. > > > Any thoughts on using AutoTRAX EDA for professional PCB design (so > > > far, to me, it seems to be the best of the low-cost packages...)? >
> > > Thanks!
>
> > > -Bill
>
> > > *Eagle, Easy-PC, DIPTrace, KICAD, CADint, PerformanceEDA, etc.- Hide
> > > quoted text - >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks for the response Brad. Much appreciated, but I am not > confused at all. Taking PADS as an example, there is no way on earth > you can just hit the delete key and get rid of a footprint or net at > will!! The only way you can do that is via ECO mode only. I have > used quite a few versions of both Protel and PADS through the years, > and unless they were all "setup" differently than your versions, I > simply could not hit the delete key on accident on anything that was > in the original schematic and simply get rid of it! I wonder why we > have had two different experiences with these exact same PCB packages? Perhaps it can be set up to do that. It is possible to delete footprints and nets with the Pulsonix software I use by doing it explicitly for a particular design by altering one of the default settings. New designs default to having the setting disabled, of course. Leon | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
>
> I am thinking of buying AutoTRAX EDA (not the DOS Protel
> version!). I have demo'ed virtually every low-cost schematic/layout
> package* out there, and they all have certain issues -- some quite
> major. And while I'm use to working with Protel and PADS (which have
> issues too!), I cannot really afford those packages myself, but I was
> wondering if anyone has any feelings about AutoTRAX EDA, either pro or
> con, for professional board design. (I don't want to buy this package
> and find that it FUBARD up a $2,000 test board -- and made me look
> like a fool too!). The only major problem I found with this
> incredibly fair priced software would normally be a real deal breaker,
> which is it actually lets you delete nets and footprints in the PCB
> section after you import your schematic Netlist!! And not only that,
> it won't say anything about your deletion when you run the DRC! But I
> figure that if I know about that truly bizarre issue, I can be on the
> lookout for it.
> Any thoughts on using AutoTRAX EDA for professional PCB design (so
> far, to me, it seems to be the best of the low-cost packages...)?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Bill
>
> *Eagle, Easy-PC, DIPTrace, KICAD, CADint, PerformanceEDA, etc.