How's your cable removal business?
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Posted by Justin Time on January 25, 2005, 9:59 am
Please log in for more thread options labor related, is due to the removal clause as the cable spec of Cat 5(e) hasn't changed in almost 5 years. We have had some people come in an propose Cat 6, but that price is almost always a 40% increase in material and labor over a Cat 5(e) install. That doesn't mean that some agencies don't install Cat 6, but they usually pick and choose which offices / sites are wired to Cat 6. The usual practice here in this city is that every site is completely recabled about every 5 years. Not because the old plant went bad, but because they constantly change office configurations. I have had some offices where they have replaced the modular furniture twice in 3 years, recabling over 100 cubicles each time. And that doesn't count the number of times one agency will move out of a building into a different facility and the new space will be redone as well as the old space by the backfill agency. All told, I estimate the city spends over $1.5MM on new cabling projects each year. The particular building I work in is about 15 years old now. The building was originally wired with Cat 3. Our particular suite was rewired with Cat 5 in '99 and will be completely stripped and rewired again later this year as the space is renovated. About 7 years ago the city invested over $30 million to upgrade the desktop with Cat 5 cabling and new telephones. Took us over 3 years to work our way through the entire city and we are still cleaning up after shoddy / botched cable jobs. As we again update the telephone system we have the opportunity to go back and address the problem areas. | ||||
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Posted by TheCablingGuy on January 28, 2005, 10:58 pm
Please log in for more thread options >>Reread the statement to see exactly what the requirement is before you
>>start talking seperate contracts for cable removal. The statement is >>very specific about what is required. >
Or ask for a price for every meter of cable removed, the contractor will
> Hi Rodgers, > > I think you are referring to the clause that sates that the removal is > associated with the new cables installed under the SOW. I guess, you are > right: that should ease the tension as you can approximately quantify the > number of cables to remove by the number of panels you are getting rid of > to install your new ones. > then remove all cable as he get paid for everything he pulls out. The risk for breakdown must be shared: - The customer pays associated costs for the company, and material used. - The contractor pays the extra work associated to the problems. This will make them both focus on avoiding interruption of services. -- The Cabling Guy I only express my own personal opinion on Usenet. | ||||
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Posted by Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, th on January 26, 2005, 8:35 am
Please log in for more thread options
[snip] > Thanks for posting Rodger, let's keep this thread going. I know there
is
> gold above that ceiling; we just need to figure out how to get it!
No gold for me - I get paid by the hour, and I'm already booked solid. The problem I see with some of this is that the ceilings often have cabling that's in contact with the asbestos fireproofing so if you move it, you have to practice asbestos abatement procedures. Right now, the maintenance people and I are not allowed to do work in some bldgs because of this. And some of our bldgs have literally tons of the old 25 pair IW cable from the old key phone systems that were abandoned in the late '80s. I would really like to remove that stuff, but with the asbestos.. > Oh yes, we do really press severe on the "life safety" issue! Problem
is:
> people don't consider it an issue unless they know someone has been
fined
> for non-compliance, and we, unfortunately, don't have an example yet.
I
> honestly have not heard about anyone having been fined for this
neither
> here in PA nor nationwide. This would be the valuable bit of info I'm
someone
> looking for. > > On a side note: I think it would not help as much to learn that > has actually died of the chlorines exhumed by the cable as to learn
that
Exhumed? I think that's when you dig a dead and buried body up for forensic examination. > someone has been fined $90 (or better yet $900) for not removing the
two
> stupid cable. Having been involved with the issue for couple years > already, I would say it is really disheartening to see how much people > don't really care about safety UNLESS IT IS ENFORCED! > > Anyways, correct pricing is still an issue: on average it takes about > times less time to remove cable than to install it, but there is
always a
> "BUT": there is a great degree of unpredictability involved. An
abandoned
> cable gets entangled with a live one, you yank it out, and your
neighbor's
> T1 goes down. That's my biggest fear coming into these types of
projects.
> I'm not even sure our insurance company would be happy to know that we
are
> taking such risks all day long removing the old cables.
work
> > Another issue that has been identified so far: it requires different > force. If you send your best techs removing cable, after couple hours
in
> this dust you easily get them de-motivated and you'll pay through the
street.
> nose. On the other hand a person should know what he's doing to avoid > pulling a live cable out, so you can't just take anyone from the > We have not yet been able to identify a proper mix of experienced
techs
> and laborers to do this job. The last one should be read: we are
paying
> through the nose for a rather un-sophisticated type of work being done
by
> people clearly over-qualified for the job.
a
> > About selling the scrap: at our (only one known to us) local facility > pickup truck-load of scrap copper cable yields a case of beer. Though
case.
> useful for a company picnic, it does not really justify a business > Interesting detail: you'd think they recycle the copper: na-ah, they
> recycle the PVC and make garden accessories from it. > > -- | ||||
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Posted by Dmitri(Cabling-Design.com on January 27, 2005, 6:03 am
Please log in for more thread options Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, th wrote:
> No gold for me - I get paid by the hour, and I'm already booked solid.
Can't brag about overbooking myself, so any additional opportunity is welcomed. > The problem I see with some of this is that the ceilings often have
> cabling that's in contact with the asbestos fireproofing so if you move > it, you have to practice asbestos abatement procedures. Right now, the > maintenance people and I are not allowed to do work in some bldgs > because of this. And some of our bldgs have literally tons of the old > 25 pair IW cable from the old key phone systems that were abandoned in > the late '80s. I would really like to remove that stuff, but with the > asbestos.. Thanks for the insight. I did not think of that before. I guess, you can always cut them flush with the firestop device. Otherwise you'd have to worry about re-firestopping, so just cutting the cables at this point sounds logical to me (unless disapproved by the firestop device manufacturer) > Exhumed? I think that's when you dig a dead and buried body up for
> forensic examination. Emit? Give off? Well, you get the idea ;-) Thanks! -- Dmitri Abaimov, RCDD http://www.cabling-design.com Cabling Forum, color codes, pinouts and other useful resources for premises cabling users and pros http://www.cabling-design.com/homecabling Residential Cabling Guide ------------------------------------- ##-----------------------------------------------## Article posted with Cabling-Design.com Newsgroup Archive http://www.cabling-design.com/forums no-spam read and post WWW interface to your favorite newsgroup - comp.dcom.cabling - 1139 messages and counting! ##-----------------------------------------------## | ||||
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Posted by David Ross on January 27, 2005, 5:46 pm
Please log in for more thread options >>The problem I see with some of this is that the ceilings often have
>>cabling that's in contact with the asbestos fireproofing so if you move >>it, you have to practice asbestos abatement procedures. Right now, the >>maintenance people and I are not allowed to do work in some bldgs >>because of this. And some of our bldgs have literally tons of the old >>25 pair IW cable from the old key phone systems that were abandoned in >>the late '80s. I would really like to remove that stuff, but with the >>asbestos.. When you talk about really old cable you start getting into weird situations. When AT&T broke up and deregulation took hold at some point it was "decided" that the wire in the walls belonged to the local provider. You were even supposed to call your local phone company and ask them to officially abandon it before ripping it out. (We did this in Pittsburgh in the 80s and you could tell by the voice at the other end they were tired of the question.) At some point I think some, most, maybe most all, of the local carriers officially abandoned it to the building owners. But if not and there is a fire safety case, I imagine it could get strange in the lawsuits. | ||||
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