How's your cable removal business?
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Posted by Dmitri(Cabling-Design.com on January 21, 2005, 1:20 am
Please log in for more thread options The year is 2005, and the new National Electrical Code is officially out, and the 2002 edition moved up the ladder into field use. So, it is now really-really required to remove those abandoned cables (or tag them "for future use"). Has anyone been successful in selling this idea to the customers? I personally have nothing to brag about except for some small jobs. One of the problems I'm been able to identify so far is: how do you price it with so many unknowns? The second major one is: who's gonna pay? Landlord? Tenant that's moving out? Anyways, if someone has any success stories to post here, please do. Looks like a potential business opportunity, if approached correctly. Let's think together about what works and what does not. Thanks! -- Dmitri Abaimov, RCDD http://www.cabling-design.com Cabling Forum, color codes, pinouts and other useful resources for premises cabling users and pros http://www.cabling-design.com/homecabling Residential Cabling Guide ------------------------------------- ##-----------------------------------------------## Article posted with Cabling-Design.com Newsgroup Archive http://www.cabling-design.com/forums no-spam read and post WWW interface to your favorite newsgroup - comp.dcom.cabling - 1118 messages and counting! ##-----------------------------------------------## | ||||
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Posted by Justin Time on January 21, 2005, 9:13 am
Please log in for more thread options answers people are facing as they try to sell this to the customer. As far as marketing tips, or "how do I sell it to my customer?" I would look to your local permitting agency. If the inspectors are going to include this in their inspection criteria, then you have "somebody to blame it on" as it is now required by the local Authority Having Authority. A second way to look at it is to try to sell it as a life-safety issue. The building owner and tenants are required to do everything possible to protect their employees / tenants and leaving old, abandoned cable in the ceilings adds fuel for any fire that may get started. This is a similar sales approach to adding the cost of firestopping. As far as pricing cable removal, I would base it on the number of cables to be removed. While you probably can't get an exact count, base an estimate on the amount of labor to install a similar number of cables. If you can haul off the old cable, then there may be additional revenue from selling it as scrap. Sometimes even old patch panels can be reused if the customer tells you "take out what's here." Giving old patch panels to charitable organizations can result in a tax write-off which is reflected on the company's bottom line. Rodgers Platt | ||||
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Posted by Dmitri(Cabling-Design.com on January 22, 2005, 5:21 am
Please log in for more thread options Justin Time wrote:
> As far as marketing tips, or "how do I sell it to my
> customer?" I would > look to your local permitting agency. If the inspectors are going to > include this in their inspection criteria, then you have "somebody > to > blame it on" as it is now required by the local Authority Having > Authority. > A second way to look at it is to try to sell it as a life-safety issue.
> The building owner and tenants are required to do everything possible > to protect their employees / tenants and leaving old, abandoned cable > in the ceilings adds fuel for any fire that may get started. This is a > similar sales approach to adding the cost of firestopping. > As far as pricing cable removal, I would base it on the number of
> cables to be removed. While you probably can't get an exact count, > base an estimate on the amount of labor to install a similar number of > cables. If you can haul off the old cable, then there may be > additional revenue from selling it as scrap. Sometimes even old patch > panels can be reused if the customer tells you "take out what's > here." > Giving old patch panels to charitable organizations can result in a tax > write-off which is reflected on the company's bottom line. > Rodgers Platt Thanks for posting Rodger, let's keep this thread going. I know there is gold above that ceiling; we just need to figure out how to get it! Oh yes, we do really press severe on the "life safety" issue! Problem is: people don't consider it an issue unless they know someone has been fined for non-compliance, and we, unfortunately, don't have an example yet. I honestly have not heard about anyone having been fined for this neither here in PA nor nationwide. This would be the valuable bit of info I'm looking for. On a side note: I think it would not help as much to learn that someone has actually died of the chlorines exhumed by the cable as to learn that someone has been fined $90 (or better yet $900) for not removing the stupid cable. Having been involved with the issue for couple years already, I would say it is really disheartening to see how much people don't really care about safety UNLESS IT IS ENFORCED! Anyways, correct pricing is still an issue: on average it takes about two times less time to remove cable than to install it, but there is always a "BUT": there is a great degree of unpredictability involved. An abandoned cable gets entangled with a live one, you yank it out, and your neighbor’s T1 goes down. That's my biggest fear coming into these types of projects. I'm not even sure our insurance company would be happy to know that we are taking such risks all day long removing the old cables. Another issue that has been identified so far: it requires different work force. If you send your best techs removing cable, after couple hours in this dust you easily get them de-motivated and you'll pay through the nose. On the other hand a person should know what he's doing to avoid pulling a live cable out, so you can't just take anyone from the street. We have not yet been able to identify a proper mix of experienced techs and laborers to do this job. The last one should be read: we are paying through the nose for a rather un-sophisticated type of work being done by people clearly over-qualified for the job. About selling the scrap: at our (only one known to us) local facility a pickup truck-load of scrap copper cable yields a case of beer. Though useful for a company picnic, it does not really justify a business case. Interesting detail: you'd think they recycle the copper: na-ah, they recycle the PVC and make garden accessories from it. -- Dmitri Abaimov, RCDD http://www.cabling-design.com Cabling Forum, color codes, pinouts and other useful resources for premises cabling users and pros http://www.cabling-design.com/homecabling Residential Cabling Guide ------------------------------------- ##-----------------------------------------------## Article posted with Cabling-Design.com Newsgroup Archive http://www.cabling-design.com/forums no-spam read and post WWW interface to your favorite newsgroup - comp.dcom.cabling - 1128 messages and counting! ##-----------------------------------------------## | ||||
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Posted by David Ross on January 22, 2005, 5:23 am
Please log in for more thread options > Anyways, correct pricing is still an issue: on average it takes about two
> times less time to remove cable than to install it, but there is always a > "BUT": there is a great degree of unpredictability involved. An abandoned > cable gets entangled with a live one, you yank it out, and your neighbor’s > T1 goes down. That's my biggest fear coming into these types of projects. > I'm not even sure our insurance company would be happy to know that we are > taking such risks all day long removing the old cables. Or you pull down a suspended ceiling, or pull out a poorly secured 120v wire, or break a fragile solder joint on a sprinkler pipe, or..... The main reason cable was abandoned in place was the hassle of getting it out. What does the code say about abandoned cable behind plaster or sheetrock where removal might mean cutting into walls to removed cable anchored down to entangled with good? | ||||
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Posted by Dmitri(Cabling-Design.com on January 22, 2005, 5:24 pm
Please log in for more thread options David Ross wrote:
> What does the code say about abandoned cable behind plaster or
> sheetrock > where removal might mean cutting into walls to removed cable anchored > down to entangled with good? It only requires removal of abandoned cables in plenum spaces. So, no need to rip the walls. Still a hassle to remove as you correctly pointed out. -- Dmitri Abaimov, RCDD http://www.cabling-design.com Cabling Forum, color codes, pinouts and other useful resources for premises cabling users and pros http://www.cabling-design.com/homecabling Residential Cabling Guide ------------------------------------- ##-----------------------------------------------## Article posted with Cabling-Design.com Newsgroup Archive http://www.cabling-design.com/forums no-spam read and post WWW interface to your favorite newsgroup - comp.dcom.cabling - 1131 messages and counting! ##-----------------------------------------------## | ||||
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> answers people are facing as they try to sell this to the customer.