First office install, looking for suggestions and suppliers
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Posted by Al Dykes on July 29, 2005, 1:35 am
Please log in for more thread options >> spork.sporkman@gmail.com wrote:
>> > After looking at a few quotes from $5000-$6500 for
>> > the installation of 42 jacks in a very "rough" space, >>
>> $119-155/drop doesn't sound outrageous for NYC. >
>Assuming a supply cost of $1500 or so, that means $4000-$5000 in >labor... > >> > making cables, adding jacks, etc.). After talking to a
>> > few people that have done cable installation in the past, >> > I'm pretty confident I can handle this. >>
>> Do you prefer wiring 568A or 568B? >
>Got me, but I guess I should google that? I was just going to punch >everything down in the same color code that I always use when making >patch cables. > >> > The quotes mentioned above are what I call a "typical" NYC wiring
>> > job - ethernet strapped with tie wraps to electrical conduit. >>
>> Does this meet FDNY code? >
>Honestly, I don't know, nor do I care. If they were to enforce that, >every class B and class C building in NYC would be shut down. >Seriously, I've seen a ton of office space downtown, and it's just not It doesn't matter what other people do. You're the one that get in trouble with the insurance company or FDNY. Use plenum cable. I'm in NYC and the suppliers I deal with don't even stock non-plenum solid cable. >like office space you find in other parts of the country. It's
>unusually "raw" with power conduit and most all other wiring exposed. >Considering both quotes wanted to work it this way (and with >non-plenum), I'm quite comfortable with this. > >> > So I figure overkill now should be adequate in 5 years. :)
>>
>> This is usually good planning. We ran 4 to every IO. >
>I just made a spreadsheet to demonstrate to management that the cost of >2 vs. 4 in our situation is minimal. I really wish I wasn't fighting >that fight... > >> > So now, the specific questions:
>>
>> > -With tie wraps, what's the recommended spacing to keep things in place?
>>
>> Zero. Tie-wraps aren't good for HF cable. Especially not tight. >
>I'll keep them fairly loose and closely spaced then. > >> > -Hints on pulling 6 or more cables at once?
>>
>> Multiple boxes / reel rack PLUS an assistant to keep'em flowing. >
>Check and check! > >> > -66 vs. 110 blocks - no idea, I want to mount a block where
>> > all the telco stuff comes in and patch it out to a 12 or >> > 24 port patch panel, which type of block do I want for that? >>
>> Typically 110, although Siemon makes a Cat5e 66. >
>OK, is 110 also the most common punchdown that I'll be finding on the >patch panels and the keystones? > >> > -decent crimper
>>
>> Why? You aren't planning on making patchcords, are you? >> It's hard on the hands and are you sure you know enough? >
>We simply don't have one, and in the course of business I know that >someone's going to want a 16 1/2 foot crossover cable or some other >wacky thing and I refuse to pay $30 at RatShack for that. > >> > -is there a punchdown tool that hits all wires at once on
>> > a keystone or patch panel? Good or not? >>
>> There is a big slammer for 5pr 110. >
>In general, single or double, any recommendations as far as brand? >I've got up to $100 on this. > >> > get my cable (about 6500' white cat5e, non-plenum, solid),
>>
>> Are you sure Fire codes allow non-plenum? >
>See above... None of this is going in air ducts, inside conduit, >inside walls, or in a drop ceiling. > >Thanks much! > >Still looking for more supplier suggestions, and really looking for >recommendations on a tool to strip the outer jacket off quickly and >easily. I really hate the ones that are on the crimpers - too easy to >bite into the cable. > >Also, is there a keystone that is actually meant to take either an >RJ-45 or an RJ-11? The ones I've found around the office will do that, >but if I order 50 or so, I want to make sure I'm asking for the right >thing. > >Lastly, any particular favorites for surface-mount jacks? I see >Leviton, Hubbell and off-brand generic stuff and it all looks fairly >similar; just a small plastic box you screw to the wall and pop a bunch >of keystone jacks in. > >Thanks again, all! > >Charles > >> -- Robert
>
-- a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Robert Redelmeier on July 29, 2005, 6:07 am
Please log in for more thread options spork.sporkman@gmail.com wrote: > Assuming a supply cost of $1500 or so, that means $4000-$5000
> in labor... I think the material cost is considerably higher with plenum. > I was just going to punch everything down in the same color
> code that I always use when making patch cables. And prey tell, what order might that be? > Honestly, I don't know, nor do I care. If they were to
Your bosses' might. Or perhaps the owners should. Fire code violations can void a Certificate of Occupancy. > OK, is 110 also the most common punchdown that I'll be
> finding on the patch panels and the keystones? Yes, definitely. > We simply don't have one, and in the course of business I
> know that someone's going to want a 16 1/2 foot crossover > cable or some other wacky thing and I refuse to pay $30 at > RatShack for that. So find a better supplier on the net. Making good patchcords requires lots of knowledge. crimpling plugs on solid is very temporary and prone to intermittants. > In general, single or double, any recommendations as far
> as brand? I've got up to $100 on this. A good single will run close to that. Harris. >> Are you sure Fire codes allow non-plenum?
> See above... None of this is going in air ducts, inside
> conduit, inside walls, or in a drop ceiling. So? Many codes now require plenum everywhere. > looking for recommendations on a tool to strip the outer
> jacket off quickly and easily. I really hate the ones that > are on the crimpers - too easy to bite into the cable. Look for a plastic rotating tool with a small embedded razor. > Also, is there a keystone that is actually meant to take
> either an RJ-45 or an RJ-11? The ones I've found around > the office will do that, but if I order 50 or so, I want > to make sure I'm asking for the right thing. All RJ45 jacks will take an RJ11, but might squash the outer (important) pins a bit. Don't. -- Robert | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Mark Evans on August 1, 2005, 6:04 pm
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> spork.sporkman@gmail.com wrote:
> > Also, is there a keystone that is actually meant to take
> > either an RJ-45 or an RJ-11? The ones I've found around > > the office will do that, but if I order 50 or so, I want > > to make sure I'm asking for the right thing. > All RJ45 jacks will take an RJ11, but might squash the outer
> (important) pins a bit. Don't. Murphy's law says that doing this *will* damage the jacks if you ever want to use them for anything else in future :) -- Mark Evans St. Peter's CofE Aided School Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109 Fax: +44 1392 204763 | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Justin on August 15, 2005, 4:54 pm
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Mark Evans wrote: >
>>spork.sporkman@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>Also, is there a keystone that is actually meant to take
>>>either an RJ-45 or an RJ-11? The ones I've found around >>>the office will do that, but if I order 50 or so, I want >>>to make sure I'm asking for the right thing. >
> >>All RJ45 jacks will take an RJ11, but might squash the outer
>>(important) pins a bit. Don't. >
I've several manufactures claim in their materials that their pin design
> > Murphy's law says that doing this *will* damage the jacks if > you ever want to use them for anything else in future :) > on their jacks has been specifically designed to eliminate this problem (both Leviton and Panduit come to mind). As I've not had this problem in quite some time (using Systimax, Leviton and Panduit) I would tend to believe it. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Perkowski on July 29, 2005, 10:29 am
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spork.sporkman@gmail.com wrote: > Robert Redelmeier wrote:
> >>spork.sporkman@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>>After looking at a few quotes from $5000-$6500 for
>>>the installation of 42 jacks in a very "rough" space, >>
>>$119-155/drop doesn't sound outrageous for NYC. >
> > Assuming a supply cost of $1500 or so, that means $4000-$5000 in > labor... > > >>>making cables, adding jacks, etc.). After talking to a
>>>few people that have done cable installation in the past, >>>I'm pretty confident I can handle this. >>
>>Do you prefer wiring 568A or 568B? >
> > Got me, but I guess I should google that? I was just going to punch > everything down in the same color code that I always use when making > patch cables. > > >>>The quotes mentioned above are what I call a "typical" NYC wiring
>>>job - ethernet strapped with tie wraps to electrical conduit. >>
>>Does this meet FDNY code? >
> > Honestly, I don't know, nor do I care. If they were to enforce that, > every class B and class C building in NYC would be shut down. > Seriously, I've seen a ton of office space downtown, and it's just not > like office space you find in other parts of the country. It's > unusually "raw" with power conduit and most all other wiring exposed. > Considering both quotes wanted to work it this way (and with > non-plenum), I'm quite comfortable with this. > > >>>So I figure overkill now should be adequate in 5 years. :)
>>
>>This is usually good planning. We ran 4 to every IO. >
> > I just made a spreadsheet to demonstrate to management that the cost of > 2 vs. 4 in our situation is minimal. I really wish I wasn't fighting > that fight... > > >>>So now, the specific questions:
>>
>>>-With tie wraps, what's the recommended spacing to keep things in place?
>>
>>Zero. Tie-wraps aren't good for HF cable. Especially not tight. >
> > I'll keep them fairly loose and closely spaced then. > > >>>-Hints on pulling 6 or more cables at once?
>>
>>Multiple boxes / reel rack PLUS an assistant to keep'em flowing. >
> > Check and check! > > >>>-66 vs. 110 blocks - no idea, I want to mount a block where
>>>all the telco stuff comes in and patch it out to a 12 or >>>24 port patch panel, which type of block do I want for that? >>
>>Typically 110, although Siemon makes a Cat5e 66. >
> > OK, is 110 also the most common punchdown that I'll be finding on the > patch panels and the keystones? > > >>>-decent crimper
>>
>>Why? You aren't planning on making patchcords, are you? >>It's hard on the hands and are you sure you know enough? >
> > We simply don't have one, and in the course of business I know that > someone's going to want a 16 1/2 foot crossover cable or some other > wacky thing and I refuse to pay $30 at RatShack for that. > > >>>-is there a punchdown tool that hits all wires at once on
>>>a keystone or patch panel? Good or not? >>
>>There is a big slammer for 5pr 110. >
> > In general, single or double, any recommendations as far as brand? > I've got up to $100 on this. > > >>>get my cable (about 6500' white cat5e, non-plenum, solid),
>>
>>Are you sure Fire codes allow non-plenum? >
> > See above... None of this is going in air ducts, inside conduit, > inside walls, or in a drop ceiling. > > Thanks much! > > Still looking for more supplier suggestions, and really looking for > recommendations on a tool to strip the outer jacket off quickly and > easily. I really hate the ones that are on the crimpers - too easy to > bite into the cable. > > Also, is there a keystone that is actually meant to take either an > RJ-45 or an RJ-11? The ones I've found around the office will do that, > but if I order 50 or so, I want to make sure I'm asking for the right > thing. > > Lastly, any particular favorites for surface-mount jacks? I see > Leviton, Hubbell and off-brand generic stuff and it all looks fairly > similar; just a small plastic box you screw to the wall and pop a bunch > of keystone jacks in. > > Thanks again, all! > > Charles > > >>-- Robert
>
I already told ya Accu-Tech on Long Island or Graybar in Long Island
> City under the 59th street bridge. Seriously though, it sounds like you are gonna rig it all together when it only take a bit more to make it nice installation. But, do what you want.... Perkowski | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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>Robert Redelmeier wrote: