First office install, looking for suggestions and suppliers
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Posted by on July 25, 2005, 11:39 pm
Please log in for more thread options Hello all, After looking at a few quotes from $5000-$6500 for the installation of 42 jacks in a very "rough" space, I've started considering doing this myself. I've got 10 years in systems admin in small shops where I already tend to do just about everything (which in the past has included dealing with punchdown blocks for telco stuff, making cables, adding jacks, etc.). After talking to a few people that have done cable installation in the past, I'm pretty confident I can handle this. The 42 jacks will all go back to a patch panel in a small co-lo room in the office. While there are 42 jacks, there will only be drops at 12 locations in the office (a mix of 2/4/6/8 outlet jacks). This is your typical downtown NYC old office space. Bare ceiling, and when finished, conduit for power remains exposed on the outside walls. No jacks for power or ethernet inside any walls, all surface mount. Office is about 50' x 70', and I will have access after the electricians, but before any office partitions go up. The quotes mentioned above are what I call a "typical" NYC wiring job - ethernet strapped with tie wraps to electrical conduit. Every station I need to hit follows the path of conduit. Running the actual cable in this manner is something I can handle I think, since there's not really much to this type of install (besides time). We have such a high number of jacks/person since we need a minimum of two (phone + computer, later VoIP phone + computer) and the support/tech guys quite often need to get a POTS, DSL, T1, or ethernet (on another vlan) line patched out to them, and that's a total mess at our current place. So I figure overkill now should be adequate in 5 years. :) So now, the specific questions: -What do you think of this "tie wrap to electrical conduit" install? Seems hokey, but every downtown office in an old building like this seems to have it done this way, and that's what two installers quoted us? -When following conduit, what's the proper way to "go around" junction boxes and outlets? -With tie wraps, what's the recommended spacing to keep things in place? -Surface mount outlets that can have 2-8 jacks on them... Who makes this stuff? Where to buy? -Hints on pulling 6 or more cables at once? -66 vs. 110 blocks - no idea, I want to mount a block where all the telco stuff comes in and patch it out to a 12 or 24 port patch panel, which type of block do I want for that? We need tools. I've never worked in a place with so few tools. Recommendations for decent brands/models are very much appreciated. I think minimally I'll need: -decent crimper -jacket stripper (correct name is?? for dressing the ends of the cable prior to punchdown) -cat & mouse to tone things out if we get confused -punchdown tool (anything special in working with keystones and patch panels? We'll also have a small block for telco stuff - see 66 vs. 110 issue above) -is there a punchdown tool that hits all wires at once on a keystone or patch panel? Good or not? -suggestions on anything else? I'm also trying to find a good online supplier where I can get my cable (about 6500' white cat5e, non-plenum, solid), tools, and jacks. Google finds a ton, but doesn't tell me if they are reputable. :) My plan goes roughly like this.. -work from the co-lo room out -put a few very loose tie wraps along the three ceiling conduit runs I'll follow to the outer walls -pull cable for each jack, verify length, etc. -add more wraps, tighten from co-lo on out -work my way down to each office -trim to desired length (you betcha I'm leaving slack!) -mount jacks -punch down Lastly, any insight that you folks that have been doing this for some time is appreciated. I've got ideas, but I don't want to make the same mistakes that everyone makes on their first job of this size. Thanks! Charles | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Perkowski on July 26, 2005, 1:44 pm
Please log in for more thread options spork.sporkman@gmail.com wrote: Do yourself a favor and buy Panduit and install the cable into it. Trust me its worth it. > -Surface mount outlets that can have 2-8 jacks on them... Who makes
> this stuff? Where to buy? Im on Long Island. I use Accu-Tech on Long Island. Talk to Ewan, he gives good pricing. They are a wholesaler of Datacom/Telco stuff. They have everything you'll need. New York Metro, NY 200 Robbins Lane, Unit C, WH #33 Jericho, NY 11753 Toll Free: (800) 880-9517 Local: (516) 433-3175 Fax: (516) 433-3671 > -Hints on pulling 6 or more cables at once?
If you walkoff each of the lengths, you can pull the whole group of 42 at once. Make sure you measure correctly. > -66 vs. 110 blocks - no idea, I want to mount a block where all the
> telco stuff comes in and patch it out to a 12 or 24 port patch panel, > which type of block do I want for that? You can use 110 blocks for both voice and data if you want. > We need tools. I've never worked in a place with so few tools.
> Recommendations for decent brands/models are very much appreciated. I > think minimally I'll need: > > -decent crimper Dont need a crimper. buy patch cords dont make them > -jacket stripper (correct name is?? for dressing the ends of the cable
> prior to punchdown) > -cat & mouse to tone things out if we get confused > -punchdown tool (anything special in working with keystones and patch > panels? We'll also have a small block for telco stuff - see 66 vs. 110 > issue above) HArris Punchdown tool w/66 and 110 blades > -is there a punchdown tool that hits all wires at once on a keystone or
> patch panel? Good or not? Yes, but Id just get the regular punchdown tool. > -suggestions on anything else?
> > I'm also trying to find a good online supplier where I can get my cable > (about 6500' white cat5e, non-plenum, solid), tools, and jacks. Google > finds a ton, but doesn't tell me if they are reputable. :) > > My plan goes roughly like this.. > > -work from the co-lo room out > -put a few very loose tie wraps along the three ceiling conduit runs > I'll follow to the outer walls > -pull cable for each jack, verify length, etc. > -add more wraps, tighten from co-lo on out > -work my way down to each office > -trim to desired length (you betcha I'm leaving slack!) > -mount jacks > -punch down > > Lastly, any insight that you folks that have been doing this for some > time is appreciated. I've got ideas, but I don't want to make the same > mistakes that everyone makes on their first job of this size. If you get 2-3 guys to help, you can do it in 1 day (2 the most). Later Joe Perkowski > Thanks!
> > Charles > | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by johnr999@aol.com on July 26, 2005, 3:36 pm
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spork.sporkman@gmail.com wrote,in part: > I'm also trying to find a good online supplier where I can get my cable
> (about 6500' white cat5e, non-plenum, solid), tools, and jacks. Google > finds a ton, but doesn't tell me if they are reputable. :) You might want to check out www.netcablesplus.com. I have a friend who has used them several times for good quality, yet very inexpensive cables, tools, etc. Not name brand stuff, but they work well. Good luck with the project! | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Robert Redelmeier on July 26, 2005, 6:47 pm
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spork.sporkman@gmail.com wrote: > After looking at a few quotes from $5000-$6500 for
> the installation of 42 jacks in a very "rough" space, $119-155/drop doesn't sound outrageous for NYC. > making cables, adding jacks, etc.). After talking to a
> few people that have done cable installation in the past, > I'm pretty confident I can handle this. Do you prefer wiring 568A or 568B? > The quotes mentioned above are what I call a "typical" NYC wiring
> job - ethernet strapped with tie wraps to electrical conduit. Does this meet FDNY code? > So I figure overkill now should be adequate in 5 years. :)
This is usually good planning. We ran 4 to every IO. > So now, the specific questions:
> -With tie wraps, what's the recommended spacing to keep things in place?
Zero. Tie-wraps aren't good for HF cable. Especially not tight. > -Hints on pulling 6 or more cables at once?
Multiple boxes / reel rack PLUS an assistant to keep'em flowing. > -66 vs. 110 blocks - no idea, I want to mount a block where
> all the telco stuff comes in and patch it out to a 12 or > 24 port patch panel, which type of block do I want for that? Typically 110, although Siemon makes a Cat5e 66. > -decent crimper
Why? You aren't planning on making patchcords, are you? It's hard on the hands and are you sure you know enough? > -is there a punchdown tool that hits all wires at once on
> a keystone or patch panel? Good or not? There is a big slammer for 5pr 110. > get my cable (about 6500' white cat5e, non-plenum, solid),
Are you sure Fire codes allow non-plenum? -- Robert | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by on July 28, 2005, 10:03 pm
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Robert Redelmeier wrote: > spork.sporkman@gmail.com wrote:
> > After looking at a few quotes from $5000-$6500 for
> > the installation of 42 jacks in a very "rough" space, >
> $119-155/drop doesn't sound outrageous for NYC. Assuming a supply cost of $1500 or so, that means $4000-$5000 in labor... > > making cables, adding jacks, etc.). After talking to a
> > few people that have done cable installation in the past, > > I'm pretty confident I can handle this. >
> Do you prefer wiring 568A or 568B? Got me, but I guess I should google that? I was just going to punch everything down in the same color code that I always use when making patch cables. > > The quotes mentioned above are what I call a "typical" NYC wiring
> > job - ethernet strapped with tie wraps to electrical conduit. >
> Does this meet FDNY code? Honestly, I don't know, nor do I care. If they were to enforce that, every class B and class C building in NYC would be shut down. Seriously, I've seen a ton of office space downtown, and it's just not like office space you find in other parts of the country. It's unusually "raw" with power conduit and most all other wiring exposed. Considering both quotes wanted to work it this way (and with non-plenum), I'm quite comfortable with this. > > So I figure overkill now should be adequate in 5 years. :)
>
> This is usually good planning. We ran 4 to every IO. I just made a spreadsheet to demonstrate to management that the cost of 2 vs. 4 in our situation is minimal. I really wish I wasn't fighting that fight... > > So now, the specific questions:
>
> > -With tie wraps, what's the recommended spacing to keep things in place?
>
> Zero. Tie-wraps aren't good for HF cable. Especially not tight. I'll keep them fairly loose and closely spaced then. > > -Hints on pulling 6 or more cables at once?
>
> Multiple boxes / reel rack PLUS an assistant to keep'em flowing. Check and check! > > -66 vs. 110 blocks - no idea, I want to mount a block where
> > all the telco stuff comes in and patch it out to a 12 or > > 24 port patch panel, which type of block do I want for that? >
> Typically 110, although Siemon makes a Cat5e 66. OK, is 110 also the most common punchdown that I'll be finding on the patch panels and the keystones? > > -decent crimper
>
> Why? You aren't planning on making patchcords, are you? > It's hard on the hands and are you sure you know enough? We simply don't have one, and in the course of business I know that someone's going to want a 16 1/2 foot crossover cable or some other wacky thing and I refuse to pay $30 at RatShack for that. > > -is there a punchdown tool that hits all wires at once on
> > a keystone or patch panel? Good or not? >
> There is a big slammer for 5pr 110. In general, single or double, any recommendations as far as brand? I've got up to $100 on this. > > get my cable (about 6500' white cat5e, non-plenum, solid),
>
> Are you sure Fire codes allow non-plenum? See above... None of this is going in air ducts, inside conduit, inside walls, or in a drop ceiling. Thanks much! Still looking for more supplier suggestions, and really looking for recommendations on a tool to strip the outer jacket off quickly and easily. I really hate the ones that are on the crimpers - too easy to bite into the cable. Also, is there a keystone that is actually meant to take either an RJ-45 or an RJ-11? The ones I've found around the office will do that, but if I order 50 or so, I want to make sure I'm asking for the right thing. Lastly, any particular favorites for surface-mount jacks? I see Leviton, Hubbell and off-brand generic stuff and it all looks fairly similar; just a small plastic box you screw to the wall and pop a bunch of keystone jacks in. Thanks again, all! Charles > -- Robert
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>
> After looking at a few quotes from $5000-$6500 for the installation of
> 42 jacks in a very "rough" space, I've started considering doing this
> myself. I've got 10 years in systems admin in small shops where I
> already tend to do just about everything (which in the past has
> included dealing with punchdown blocks for telco stuff, making cables,
> adding jacks, etc.). After talking to a few people that have done
> cable installation in the past, I'm pretty confident I can handle this.
>
> The 42 jacks will all go back to a patch panel in a small co-lo room in
> the office. While there are 42 jacks, there will only be drops at 12
> locations in the office (a mix of 2/4/6/8 outlet jacks). This is your
> typical downtown NYC old office space. Bare ceiling, and when
> finished, conduit for power remains exposed on the outside walls. No
> jacks for power or ethernet inside any walls, all surface mount.
> Office is about 50' x 70', and I will have access after the
> electricians, but before any office partitions go up. The quotes
> mentioned above are what I call a "typical" NYC wiring job - ethernet
> strapped with tie wraps to electrical conduit. Every station I need
> to hit follows the path of conduit. Running the actual cable in this
> manner is something I can handle I think, since there's not really much
> to this type of install (besides time).
>
> We have such a high number of jacks/person since we need a minimum of
> two (phone + computer, later VoIP phone + computer) and the
> support/tech guys quite often need to get a POTS, DSL, T1, or ethernet
> (on another vlan) line patched out to them, and that's a total mess at
> our current place. So I figure overkill now should be adequate in 5
> years. :)
>
> So now, the specific questions:
>
> -What do you think of this "tie wrap to electrical conduit" install?
> Seems hokey, but every downtown office in an old building like this
> seems to have it done this way, and that's what two installers quoted
> us?