RF light switch

Insteon, RF? I'm not aware of an Insteon RF switch (yet). Did you find one?

Reply to
Neil Cherry
Loading thread data ...

I've got Lutron Radio RA switches. They work great. Not cheap but they work, EVERY time.

Reply to
wkearney99

Please help me decide which RF light switch to choose: Zwave Insteon or Zeebee ( not yet available) Thank Ya'll

Reply to
P T

Nope but they can cause confusion. The PLC doesn't have an RF section. Dave answered this one best so I won't add any more to that.

Reply to
Neil Cherry

My response would be "none of the above".

For limitations common to all RF devices see...

formatting link

If, after reading the white paper, you are still interested in RF light switches...

Insteon only uses RF as a phase bridge and (planned, but not yet available) in remotes that communicate with the phase bridges. The actual control is done by powerline. They have a white paper on their web site that gives the details.

formatting link

There are ZigBee (not ZeeBee) switches available from Control 4 and Crestron. Crestron has long had their own proprietary 418MHz and 433.92MHz RF devices as well. An advantage of the latter is that RF capable programmable touchscreen remotes (e.g. Pronto) can be used for control. Crestron has a good reputation for reliability but this comes at high prices. I haven't seen their pricing on the new ZigBee based devices.

Lutron's RadioRA also uses proprietary 418 & 433.92MHz devices but their protocol is too complex for most programmable remotes. Like Crestron, RadioRA has a good reputation for reliability but is costly and needs closely spaced units.

RF control makes more sense outside North America. The FCC and Industry Canada set very low limits on radiated power so range is very limited. Most of systems compensate by using various repeater schemes but these require lots of devices with relatively close spacing. (See the Echelon white paper.) Outside of North America, limits on radiated power are much, much higher and there are several suppliers of RF controlled switches with a wide price range.

While ZigBee devices use a common, open source mesh networking protocol, most companies that supply hardware will likely have proprietary communications protocols meaning that interoperability will be unlikely between devices from different manufacturers.

Reply to
Dave Houston

If your interested I'll let you test a couple Zwave modules.

First Hand expirence is the best.

You can contact me via email to work something out.

Reply to
Brian

Reply to
Dave Houston

The switches are expensive. I've got 16 of them (wall and table dimmers) now driven through a single repeater in a 3000sqft house built in the 50's. No signal issues whatsoever, they all work, every time. I'm controlling them via the RS232 interface (likewise, not cheap). 6 months use thus far and NO hiccups AT ALL.

I am, however, looking forward to price drops on RadioRA due to the emerging Zigbee devices. Let's hope those work 'well enough' to be competition. RadioRA does lack appliance modules unfortunately. So I've still got some X10 crap driving lights for the holidays.

Reply to
wkearney99

I disagree. An office building is much more hostile to RF than a residence. The average house doesn't have rebar slabs *between* floors, girders, metal studs, metal doors and frames, elevator shafts and tinted windows (known to block RF). Older houses /might/ have issues with plaster or stucco on metal wire but the majority will be simple drywall on wood stick framing.

Granted, RF isn't magic, TANSTAAFL.

Reply to
wkearney99

The repeater is placed centrally. In the basement, nestled up in the space between floor joists.

The farthest one is about 33' away. That and it's essentially 'outside' in a sunroom that was converted by previous owners from an outside porch area. A room known to have trouble picking up 802.11 signals from a base station placed in just about the same location as the RadioRA repeater. Granted, the frequencies are different, but it's pretty damn impressive to someone who's put up with X10 crap all these years.

I've not tried further distances but I do have an outside shed that's about

20' feet further away from the sunroom switch. At some point I'll try using a RadioRA switch out there just to see if it works.

-Bill Kearney

Reply to
wkearney99

I didn't say it wasn't possible, I disagreed with your broad generalization that it's equal.

Reply to
wkearney99

It depends on location. There are countries where single residences have many of the things you list - concrete houses are common in Europe - metal studs are common in South America. And there are many high rise (and high priced) residential buildings in US cities that have all of the things you list. Stucco is common in California.

Reply to
Dave Houston

What is the maximum distance between the repeater and individual receivers?

Lutron says each repeater covers about 2500ft² which would imply about a 28 foot radius. I've seen their dealer/installers recommend 20-25 feet.

Reply to
Dave Houston

And I disagree with your deliberate distortion and mischaracterization of my post. I did not, in any way, imply it was equal. I said "much" of it applies.

Reply to
Dave Houston

Neither frequency is a good comparison to ZigBee and Z-Wave. As I recall, Lutron uses 418MHz in the US and 433MHz in Europe. Both will travel further than the 802.11 frequency. ZigBee and Z-Wave are in the 902-928MHz range.

And adding a switch to an outbuilding won't really add much data to the issue of "indoor" range.

As for the crappy X-10 RF stuff, I get 150-200' range and for much less than the cost of a single RadioRA device.

Reply to
Dave Houston

Err, yeah I suppose, my point being one of distance coverage. The repeater being inside the home, in a basement up near the floor joists, and the outbuilding being some 60' away through brick-on-block 50's era construction. My furthest switch currently is beyond the recommended distance and works quite reliably, in an area known to cause WiFi and cordless phone trouble (recognizing the frequency differences). My point being that RadioRA seems quite a bit more useful than some others. I look forward to being able to try zigbee devices in this same setup, presuming of course that someone actually starts shipping them through something other than $tealership channels.

True, X10 RF seems quite a bit less horrible than their PLC stuff. Excepting, of course, that X10's RF devices don't do what the RadioRA stuff does. It's sort of apples and oranges. I do plan on continuing to use the RF aspects of some X10 remotes, just not their PLC devices. A few slim switches tied into a WF800 and Homeseer will compliment the RadioRA wall switches quite nicely.

Reply to
wkearney99

Reply to
Dave Houston

Ah yes, continuing your 'be an argumentative git' behavior, eh?

The echelon article discussed an example that didn't RF didn't cover based on interior wall layouts (and that moving the xcvr didn't help). I'm finding that not to be the case with my rather typical real-world situation. Sure, there's variables involved, but my addition of an outbuilding will continue to follow the article's example, in that the repeater will continue to be indoors. That the additional switch will happen to be across a 30' air gap that's outside is pretty irrelevant.

I've done echelon programming so I'm familiar with their products, along with their general failure to produce anything other than limited market devices. Shame, really, they've got some pretty cool ideas, just no follow-through to market.

Reply to
wkearney99

Cabling-Design.com Forums website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.