XPS-3 Strangeness
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Posted by BruceR on May 11, 2008, 9:07 pm
Please log in for more thread options dlh wrote: specifically asking about manual operation. The only Smarthome manufactured switches that are currently in their catalog are their Insteon switches which are also X10 compatible. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by dlh on May 12, 2008, 6:38 am
Please log in for more thread options > Right, I didn't mean to exclude remote operation but the OP was
> specifically asking about manual operation. The only Smarthome > manufactured switches that are currently in their catalog are their > Insteon switches which are also X10 compatible. In X10 mode, they report changes even with manual operation or with things like bulb failure. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by David White on May 12, 2008, 9:18 pm
Please log in for more thread options Thanks for all the responses.
I had another XPS-3 that has been working perfectly on another circuit. So I took your advice and swapped the two switches. I find that the problem does NOT follow the switch. So there does seem to be an issue with the circuit in question. Thinking that there may be stray commands passing, I have been running version 1.42 of ActiveHome (which seems to fix other strangeness I have been seeing when running version 1.32 on Windows XP) and watching its communications log. I am not seeing any unexpected commands being received. So perhaps it is noise as you suggest. But if, as you say, the noise should not generate on/off commands, how could it be impacting the XPS-3? I bought these switches precisely because they are supposed to handle fluorescents. Can I tell if the fluorescents are the cause simply by removing the tubes? Or will there still be noise from the ballasts? Is there anything I can do about the noise save removing the shop lights? Thanks. BruceR wrote: > The X10 Pro line does not generate a signal under any condition - they
> are receive only devices. Higher end switches from Leviton and Smarthome > can generate signals when manually operated. The noise could very well > be coming from the flourescent light itself but that should not generate > false on and off commands. It may be worth trying another switch to see > if the one you have is defective. > > David White wrote: >> The circuit in question has 2 overhead incandescent bulbs and 2,
>> 2-bulb fluorescent shop-type lights. >> >> Would the noise you are speaking of come from something on the >> controlled circuit or outside? >> >> I had the thing wired by a pro electrician and he carefully identified >> the wires and matched them to the instructions. It all works just >> fine. But just a moment ago, I turned on the switch and within a >> minute it shut itself off again on its own. This auto-OFF seems to >> happen with greater frequency than auto-ON. >> >> I am not sure how these work. I know there is a relay inside as I can >> hear it snap. I presume that switching the XPS-3 ON engages the relay >> which holds contact until it is switched OFF. Is this correct? If so, >> could it be a faulty relay that is just "letting-go"? That would >> explain the auto-OFF but I guess not the auto-ON. >> >> On a different but related issue: I am running active home connected >> to my CM11A and watching its communications log in an effort to see >> any "stray" commands. When I manually turn either of my XPS-3 switches >> on/off I do not see any activity. Are these things supposed to >> generate a signal when they are turned off/on? >> >> Thanks. >> >> BruceR wrote: >>> What kind of lamp are you controlling?
>>> It's not a common problem and is usually caused by noise. >>> You could try another House Code but it probably won't make a >>> difference. >>> The companion switch shoudn't make a difference. >>> It's probably not defective. >>> Yes, you should verify your wiring as a first step but if it works >>> it's probably OK. >>> Again, noise is the most likely culprit. >>> >>> David White wrote: >>>> Hello. I recently purchased and installed 2 XPS-3 switches I got off >>>> EBay. One has a WS-14A/XPSS companion switch. >>>> >>>> Almost as soon as I installed these, I have noticed that the one >>>> with the companion switch will sometimes turn itself off. But in >>>> the last couple days, I have noticed that it is also sometimes >>>> turning itself ON. The unit without the companion switch is fine. >>>> >>>> I have a CM11A that does turn some modules on/off on timers. But the >>>> switches in question are NOT controlled that way. Even so, the >>>> strange events do no relate to the events that are programmed (not >>>> the same times). I am also very sure that no one else in the area >>>> has X-10 running (I live in a pretty rural environment). >>>> >>>> So: >>>> >>>> (a) Do the XPS-3 units commonly have this problem? >>>> >>>> (b) Does the presence of the companion switch make any difference? >>>> >>>> (c) Does this seem a manufacturing defect? >>>> >>>> (d) Could this be due to a wiring mistake on my end? >>>> >>>> Thanks. >
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Posted by BruceR on May 13, 2008, 1:32 am
Please log in for more thread options Try running each fixture alone to see if you can isolate the problem to
one or the other (more likely the flourescent). If that's the problem you can use an in-line filter at the fixture to remove the noise. If the fixture is really old changing the ballast may help although it's usually cheaper to buy a whole new fixture than a ballast. David White wrote: > Thanks for all the responses.
> > I had another XPS-3 that has been working perfectly on another > circuit. So I took your advice and swapped the two switches. I find > that the > problem does NOT follow the switch. So there does seem to be an issue > with the circuit in question. > > Thinking that there may be stray commands passing, I have been running > version 1.42 of ActiveHome (which seems to fix other strangeness I > have been seeing when running version 1.32 on Windows XP) and > watching its communications log. I am not seeing any unexpected > commands being received. > So perhaps it is noise as you suggest. But if, as you say, the noise > should not generate on/off commands, how could it be impacting the > XPS-3? I bought these switches precisely because they are supposed to > handle fluorescents. Can I tell if the fluorescents are the cause > simply by removing the tubes? Or will there still be noise from the > ballasts? > Is there anything I can do about the noise save removing the shop > lights? > Thanks. > > BruceR wrote: >> The X10 Pro line does not generate a signal under any condition -
>> they are receive only devices. Higher end switches from Leviton and >> Smarthome can generate signals when manually operated. The noise >> could very well be coming from the flourescent light itself but that >> should not generate false on and off commands. It may be worth >> trying another switch to see if the one you have is defective. >> >> David White wrote: >>> The circuit in question has 2 overhead incandescent bulbs and 2,
>>> 2-bulb fluorescent shop-type lights. >>> >>> Would the noise you are speaking of come from something on the >>> controlled circuit or outside? >>> >>> I had the thing wired by a pro electrician and he carefully >>> identified the wires and matched them to the instructions. It all >>> works just fine. But just a moment ago, I turned on the switch and >>> within a minute it shut itself off again on its own. This auto-OFF >>> seems to happen with greater frequency than auto-ON. >>> >>> I am not sure how these work. I know there is a relay inside as I >>> can hear it snap. I presume that switching the XPS-3 ON engages the >>> relay which holds contact until it is switched OFF. Is this >>> correct? If so, could it be a faulty relay that is just >>> "letting-go"? That would explain the auto-OFF but I guess not the >>> auto-ON. On a different but related issue: I am running active home >>> connected >>> to my CM11A and watching its communications log in an effort to see >>> any "stray" commands. When I manually turn either of my XPS-3 >>> switches on/off I do not see any activity. Are these things >>> supposed to generate a signal when they are turned off/on? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> BruceR wrote: >>>> What kind of lamp are you controlling? >>>> It's not a common problem and is usually caused by noise. >>>> You could try another House Code but it probably won't make a >>>> difference. >>>> The companion switch shoudn't make a difference. >>>> It's probably not defective. >>>> Yes, you should verify your wiring as a first step but if it works >>>> it's probably OK. >>>> Again, noise is the most likely culprit. >>>> >>>> David White wrote: >>>>> Hello. I recently purchased and installed 2 XPS-3 switches I got >>>>> off EBay. One has a WS-14A/XPSS companion switch. >>>>> >>>>> Almost as soon as I installed these, I have noticed that the one >>>>> with the companion switch will sometimes turn itself off. But in >>>>> the last couple days, I have noticed that it is also sometimes >>>>> turning itself ON. The unit without the companion switch is fine. >>>>> >>>>> I have a CM11A that does turn some modules on/off on timers. But >>>>> the switches in question are NOT controlled that way. Even so, the >>>>> strange events do no relate to the events that are programmed (not >>>>> the same times). I am also very sure that no one else in the area >>>>> has X-10 running (I live in a pretty rural environment). >>>>> >>>>> So: >>>>> >>>>> (a) Do the XPS-3 units commonly have this problem? >>>>> >>>>> (b) Does the presence of the companion switch make any difference? >>>>> >>>>> (c) Does this seem a manufacturing defect? >>>>> >>>>> (d) Could this be due to a wiring mistake on my end? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by dlh on May 13, 2008, 7:58 am
Please log in for more thread options The switch mode power supplies used in CFLs frequently output continuous
noise in the band used by X10. This tends to block X10 operation - frequently allowing you to turn them on but preventing you from turning them off. Filters between switch and fluorescent can address this. Such noise does not generate phantom commands. (There are a few monkeys typing away furiously and randomly at their keyboards who dispute this.) Monitoring the line with an X10 interface (e.g. CM11A) can detect valid commands but will not detect random noise. I have monitored using methods that will show noise and detected nothing at the time such phantom events occur. My events were caused by spikes when a particular fluorescent was operated - replacing the LM14A with an Insteon/X10 module cured it. Older fluorescents with magnetic ballasts can generate spikes on the powerline when turned On or Off. The spikes can cause some X10 switches and modules to turn on or off. Some switches can be modified to address this. See... http://groups.google.com/group/comp.home.automation/msg/62d41d8a36fef5ea The trickle current of the local control feature can cause lamps (especially fluorescents) to turn back on shortly after they are turned off. Local control can be disabled but the specifics vary from one model to another. On Mon, 12 May 2008 18:18:53 -0700, David White wrote: > Thanks for all the responses.
> > I had another XPS-3 that has been working perfectly on another circuit. > So I took your advice and swapped the two switches. I find that the > problem does NOT follow the switch. So there does seem to be an issue > with the circuit in question. > > Thinking that there may be stray commands passing, I have been running > version 1.42 of ActiveHome (which seems to fix other strangeness I have > been seeing when running version 1.32 on Windows XP) and watching its > communications log. I am not seeing any unexpected commands being > received. > > So perhaps it is noise as you suggest. But if, as you say, the noise > should not generate on/off commands, how could it be impacting the > XPS-3? I bought these switches precisely because they are supposed to > handle fluorescents. Can I tell if the fluorescents are the cause simply > by removing the tubes? Or will there still be noise from the ballasts? > > Is there anything I can do about the noise save removing the shop > lights? > > Thanks. > > BruceR wrote: >> The X10 Pro line does not generate a signal under any condition - they
>> are receive only devices. Higher end switches from Leviton and >> Smarthome can generate signals when manually operated. The noise could >> very well be coming from the flourescent light itself but that should >> not generate false on and off commands. It may be worth trying another >> switch to see if the one you have is defective. >> >> David White wrote: >>> The circuit in question has 2 overhead incandescent bulbs and 2,
>>> 2-bulb fluorescent shop-type lights. >>> >>> Would the noise you are speaking of come from something on the >>> controlled circuit or outside? >>> >>> I had the thing wired by a pro electrician and he carefully identified >>> the wires and matched them to the instructions. It all works just >>> fine. But just a moment ago, I turned on the switch and within a >>> minute it shut itself off again on its own. This auto-OFF seems to >>> happen with greater frequency than auto-ON. >>> >>> I am not sure how these work. I know there is a relay inside as I can >>> hear it snap. I presume that switching the XPS-3 ON engages the relay >>> which holds contact until it is switched OFF. Is this correct? If so, >>> could it be a faulty relay that is just "letting-go"? That would >>> explain the auto-OFF but I guess not the auto-ON. >>> >>> On a different but related issue: I am running active home connected >>> to my CM11A and watching its communications log in an effort to see >>> any "stray" commands. When I manually turn either of my XPS-3 switches >>> on/off I do not see any activity. Are these things supposed to >>> generate a signal when they are turned off/on? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> BruceR wrote: >>>> What kind of lamp are you controlling? It's not a common problem and >>>> is usually caused by noise. You could try another House Code but it >>>> probably won't make a difference. >>>> The companion switch shoudn't make a difference. It's probably not >>>> defective. >>>> Yes, you should verify your wiring as a first step but if it works >>>> it's probably OK. >>>> Again, noise is the most likely culprit. >>>> >>>> David White wrote: >>>>> Hello. I recently purchased and installed 2 XPS-3 switches I got off >>>>> EBay. One has a WS-14A/XPSS companion switch. >>>>> >>>>> Almost as soon as I installed these, I have noticed that the one >>>>> with the companion switch will sometimes turn itself off. But in the >>>>> last couple days, I have noticed that it is also sometimes turning >>>>> itself ON. The unit without the companion switch is fine. >>>>> >>>>> I have a CM11A that does turn some modules on/off on timers. But the >>>>> switches in question are NOT controlled that way. Even so, the >>>>> strange events do no relate to the events that are programmed (not >>>>> the same times). I am also very sure that no one else in the area >>>>> has X-10 running (I live in a pretty rural environment). >>>>> >>>>> So: >>>>> >>>>> (a) Do the XPS-3 units commonly have this problem? >>>>> >>>>> (b) Does the presence of the companion switch make any difference? >>>>> >>>>> (c) Does this seem a manufacturing defect? >>>>> >>>>> (d) Could this be due to a wiring mistake on my end? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>
>> | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Similar Threads | Posted |
| XPS-3 Strangeness | May 10, 2008, 12:01 pm |
>
> http://www.x10.com/support/x10trou.htm#on
>
> Inductive spikes from fluorescents and brown-outs are among the
> causes.
>
> Bruce: Most Smarthome switches and modules (even the low end ones)
> send off commands or preset dim commands indicating the current level
> whenever there is a change of state. This has been the case for 3-4
> years now.
>