Help with 7 Circuit Project?
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Posted by dwswager on June 28, 2005, 2:34 pm
Please log in for more thread options Adding a screened porch to our home. Based on our lighting setup, I will have 7 individual circuits to control as follows: Circuit 1 - 2 Ceiling Fans (3 or variable speed) Circuit 2 - Light Kit on Ceiling Fan 1 (Dimming) Circuit 3 - Light Kit on Ceiling Fan 2 (Dimming) Circuit 4 - 4 Can lights (Dimming) Circuit 5 - 1 Light over Steps Circuit 6 - 1 Flood Light Fixture Circuit 7 - 1 Flood Light Fixture This is all new construction/wiring so I don't need socket adapters and such, it can all be inline switches. Wiring regular switches is not a problem, but there is no convient place to put 7 switches. And I would prefer it be in the house. Can someone recommend a way to control these seven circuits from a single control pad (Wired or wireless)? The ability to later control this remotely via a HTPC is a bonus, but not a requirement. Thanks for assistance! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Brett Griffin on June 28, 2005, 9:51 pm
Please log in for more thread options I would recommend using UPB. Simply automated and HAI makes some nice switches. The switches can be located anywher in the circuit and for simplicity may be easier to install them by the circuit breaker panel if you want remote control access anyways. You can get their table top controller, that plugs into a wall outlet, or use a single gang scene controller in a single gang outlet near the entrances. One switch has multiple buttons, and allows control based on scenes. The ceiling fans will need to be on/off configured, but the nice thing about UPB is every switch is a relay switch and a dimmer, it is based upon programming, and the programming software is free. www.simply-automated.com www.homeauto.com -- Brett Griffin, Technology Consultant Architechtronics, Inc. get to know home technologyT p. (610) 825.7018 f (215) 827.5484 *top 10 reasons to use Architechtronics for your next project http://www.architechtronics.com/top10.html **keep up on cutting-edge technology... join "the EDGE" for free at http://www.architectronics.com/edge.html ------------------------------------------- | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by wkearney99 on June 29, 2005, 12:31 pm
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> Can someone recommend a way to control these seven circuits from a
> single control pad (Wired or wireless)? The ability to later control > this remotely via a HTPC is a bonus, but not a requirement. Something like a Lutron GrafikEye, Radio RA or a Lightolier system might work. You'll have to put the switch and/or relays "somewhere" but you could put controls for them elsewhere. Got a closet nearby? Or some nearby location that wouldn't look strange with a bunch of wall plates? If so then you could put something like a 5,10 or 15 button controller from a Lutron RadioRA system on the porch for control. Then it's just a matter of setting up with buttons trigger which 'scene' levels. I'm not sure how many systems will reliably control the speeds on the fans. You may end up with them being on their own controls, with wall switches for them unless you only want on/off remote controlling (which is what I do) Personally, I despise anything powerline controlled. The technology's just too unreliable. Sure, I wish is were otherwise but experience has shown me it's very unreliable. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Brett Griffin on June 29, 2005, 6:49 pm
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> Personally, I despise anything powerline controlled. The technology's
> just > too unreliable. Sure, I wish is were otherwise but experience has shown > me > it's very unreliable. I would recommend you take a hard look at UPB. It has proven a 99.99% reliability record for 5 years now. Powerline used to mean X-10. UPB took the X-10 ideology and made it work. The two biggest problems with X-10 were signal strength and the frequency it was used at. Signal Strength. X-10 transmits 5 volts at the zero line crossing. It is extremely easy to get 5 volts of noise on a powerline circuit, and the zero line crossing is where noise is most prevalent. Once the voltage of the noise surpasses the voltage of the signal, you lost communications. The second problem is X-10 transmits at 121 KHz. At this frequency the signal attenuates, or loses its strength over a short distance. Combine these factors together (low signal strength over a short distance, and a little bit of noise) and X-10 does not work. Other complaints of X-10 had to use a coupler/repeater and it is slow. What do you think Radio Ra uses, basically every 30 feet you need a device to repeat the signal to get good coverage, and Radio Ra is as slow if not slower than X-10. Now I am not bashing Radio RA, it is a great reliable technology, but it 3 times the cost of professional X-10 or UPB. However if you want terracotta wall plates than you better call Lutron to get Radio RA. Now enter UPB. UPB transmits approximately 1/6th of a cycle before the sine wave at 40 volts above the voltage of the sine wave. It has a peak voltage around 60 volts transmitting in the 4-40 kHz spectrum. What this means, it works very well. You will not have noise the masks the UPB signal. If you do, you have a whole lot more to worry about than your lights, likely nothing in your home will operate properly. Due to its frequency, I have had dealer tell me they have seen UPB transmit over 5 miles of electrical cabling. With UPB, you have about 64,000 password protected addresses compared to 256 X-10 Addresses. UPB also allows for many unique applications that other protocols do not adapt well to. I have a three-way circuit using UPB, and there is no traveler wire. There are no UPB repeaters, they do not need them the signal is strong enough for large commercial factories, it will talk to you home switches. The .01% failure rate is due to retrofitting UPB into a graphic eye lighting (a proprietary hard wired) system. That system does not play well with third party protocols, this application you may consider a Radio Ra system for retro fitting. -- Brett Griffin, Home Technology Consultant Architechtronics, Inc. get to know home technology™ p. (610) 825.7018 f (215) 827.5484 *top 10 reasons to use Architechtronics for your next project http://www.architechtronics.com/top10.html **keep up on cutting-edge technology... join "the EDGE" for free at http://www.architectronics.com/edge.html ------------------------------------------- | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Posted by Dave Houston on June 30, 2005, 3:52 am
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>I would recommend you take a hard look at UPB. It has proven a 99.99%
>reliability record for 5 years now. Powerline used to mean X-10. UPB took >the X-10 ideology and made it work. The two biggest problems with X-10 were >signal strength and the frequency it was used at. 5 years? It was first announced about 2.5 years ago, first shown about a year ago, and has been shipping for only 9 months or so. >Signal Strength. X-10 transmits 5 volts at the zero line crossing. It is
>extremely easy to get 5 volts of noise on a powerline circuit, and the zero >line crossing is where noise is most prevalent. Once the voltage of the >noise surpasses the voltage of the signal, you lost communications. The >second problem is X-10 transmits at 121 KHz. At this frequency the signal >attenuates, or loses its strength over a short distance. Combine these >factors together (low signal strength over a short distance, and a little >bit of noise) and X-10 does not work. You are full of it. The loss of signal strength is independent of distance. There have been numerous studies that confirm this. It's the inductive and capacitive loading that attenuates the signal. Most X-10 transmitters actually transmit 10Vpp at 120kHz. Noise is lowest at zero crossing. >Other complaints of X-10 had to use a coupler/repeater and it is slow. What
>do you think Radio Ra uses, basically every 30 feet you need a device to >repeat the signal to get good coverage, and Radio Ra is as slow if not >slower than X-10. Now I am not bashing Radio RA, it is a great reliable >technology, but it 3 times the cost of professional X-10 or UPB. However if >you want terracotta wall plates than you better call Lutron to get Radio RA. When did they reduce the speed of light? What about gravity? Have they changed that law, too? >Now enter UPB.
> >UPB transmits approximately 1/6th of a cycle before the sine wave at 40 >volts above the voltage of the sine wave. It has a peak voltage around 60 >volts transmitting in the 4-40 kHz spectrum. What this means, it works very >well. You will not have noise the masks the UPB signal. If you do, you >have a whole lot more to worry about than your lights, likely nothing in >your home will operate properly. Due to its frequency, I have had dealer >tell me they have seen UPB transmit over 5 miles of electrical cabling. Your description of a UPB "signal" sounds very much like noise pulses which are quite common from triacs, motors, ballasts, etc. As I understand it, UPB generates their pulse by rapidly discharging a capacitor. That sounds like a noise pulse. I suggest you learn a few fundamentals before trying to pass yourself off as an expert. Spouting nonsense like this on topics you obviously do not understand will get you an idiot label rather quickly. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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> will have 7 individual circuits to control as follows:
>
> Circuit 1 - 2 Ceiling Fans (3 or variable speed)
> Circuit 2 - Light Kit on Ceiling Fan 1 (Dimming)
> Circuit 3 - Light Kit on Ceiling Fan 2 (Dimming)
> Circuit 4 - 4 Can lights (Dimming)
> Circuit 5 - 1 Light over Steps
> Circuit 6 - 1 Flood Light Fixture
> Circuit 7 - 1 Flood Light Fixture
>
> This is all new construction/wiring so I don't need socket adapters and
> such, it can all be inline switches. Wiring regular switches is not a
> problem, but there is no convient place to put 7 switches. And I would
> prefer it be in the house.
>
> Can someone recommend a way to control these seven circuits from a
> single control pad (Wired or wireless)? The ability to later control
> this remotely via a HTPC is a bonus, but not a requirement.
>
> Thanks for assistance!
>