Home Automation Current mid-range technology?
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Current mid-range technology? Russ in San Diego 05-21-09
Posted by Russ in San Diego on May 21, 2009, 8:32 pm
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I was describing some of my X-10 setup (installed many years ago, when
X10.com was heavily promoting the stuff, and you could get tons of it
REALLY cheap) to a contractor friend. He seemed very interested in
knowing about it for other customers. I warned him that he probably
ought to stay away from selling X-10 to customers, because it's so
dicey and unreliable. I'm ok with it for my usage, but I wouldn't
feel comfortable recommending it to a non-hobbyist who can't handle
the fussiness and frustration.

Any recommendations as to what's a reasonably priced and reasonably
reliable equivalent technology these days? Is Insteon significantly
better than X-10? What else is out there?

Posted by Dave Houston on June 9, 2009, 1:29 pm
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>I was describing some of my X-10 setup (installed many years ago, when
>X10.com was heavily promoting the stuff, and you could get tons of it
>REALLY cheap) to a contractor friend. He seemed very interested in
>knowing about it for other customers. I warned him that he probably
>ought to stay away from selling X-10 to customers, because it's so
>dicey and unreliable. I'm ok with it for my usage, but I wouldn't
>feel comfortable recommending it to a non-hobbyist who can't handle
>the fussiness and frustration.
>
>Any recommendations as to what's a reasonably priced and reasonably
>reliable equivalent technology these days? Is Insteon significantly
>better than X-10? What else is out there?

Insteon reliability is good but it's pricey compared to X10 (and it seems to
be a bmoving target with new devices being introduced to 'fix' earlier
flaws. You should also look at UPB (again, pricey) and ZWave (I'm not
impressed). You should also be aware of Jeff Volp's XTB devices - I haven't
kept up with revisions - they boost X10 signals to about 25-30Vpp which most
who've tried it say makes X10 nearly 100% reliable.

Posted by Russ in San Diego on June 11, 2009, 7:32 pm
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On Jun 9, 10:29=A0am, nob...@whocares.com (Dave Houston) wrote:
>
> >I was describing some of my X-10 setup (installed many years ago, when
> >X10.com was heavily promoting the stuff, and you could get tons of it
> >REALLY cheap) to a contractor friend. =A0He seemed very interested in
> >knowing about it for other customers. =A0I warned him that he probably
> >ought to stay away from selling X-10 to customers, because it's so
> >dicey and unreliable. =A0I'm ok with it for my usage, but I wouldn't
> >feel comfortable recommending it to a non-hobbyist who can't handle
> >the fussiness and frustration.
>
> >Any recommendations as to what's a reasonably priced and reasonably
> >reliable equivalent technology these days? =A0Is Insteon significantly
> >better than X-10? =A0What else is out there?
>
> Insteon reliability is good but it's pricey compared to X10 (and it seems=
to
> be a bmoving target with new devices being introduced to 'fix' earlier
> flaws. You should also look at UPB (again, pricey) and ZWave (I'm not
> impressed). You should also be aware of Jeff Volp's XTB devices - I haven=
't
> kept up with revisions - they boost X10 signals to about 25-30Vpp which m=
ost
> who've tried it say makes X10 nearly 100% reliable.

Thanks for the summary! I hadn't been aware of the XTB stuff, and it
looks pretty handy for my purposes. I'll pass along the information
on Insteon, UPB, and ZWave.

The reason I'm reserving judgment on XTB is that, while it ought to
ensure devices turn on or off when commanded, I don't see how it would
help with one of the worst X10 problems, that of devices switching on
or off when NOT commanded, i.e., after having recognized a code within
line noise.

Now, if devices required a stronger minimum signal -- that might
mitigate the problem -- but that's not a centralizable solution such
as that provided by the XTB-IIR..

Posted by Steve Fenwick on June 17, 2009, 11:50 pm
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In article

> On Jun 9, 10:29 am, nob...@whocares.com (Dave Houston) wrote:
> >
> > >I was describing some of my X-10 setup (installed many years ago, when
> > >X10.com was heavily promoting the stuff, and you could get tons of it
> > >REALLY cheap) to a contractor friend.  He seemed very interested in
> > >knowing about it for other customers.  I warned him that he probably
> > >ought to stay away from selling X-10 to customers, because it's so
> > >dicey and unreliable.  I'm ok with it for my usage, but I wouldn't
> > >feel comfortable recommending it to a non-hobbyist who can't handle
> > >the fussiness and frustration.
> >
> > >Any recommendations as to what's a reasonably priced and reasonably
> > >reliable equivalent technology these days?  Is Insteon significantly
> > >better than X-10?  What else is out there?
> >
> > Insteon reliability is good but it's pricey compared to X10 (and it seems to
> > be a bmoving target with new devices being introduced to 'fix' earlier
> > flaws. You should also look at UPB (again, pricey) and ZWave (I'm not
> > impressed). You should also be aware of Jeff Volp's XTB devices - I haven't
> > kept up with revisions - they boost X10 signals to about 25-30Vpp which most
> > who've tried it say makes X10 nearly 100% reliable.
>
> Thanks for the summary! I hadn't been aware of the XTB stuff, and it
> looks pretty handy for my purposes. I'll pass along the information
> on Insteon, UPB, and ZWave.
>
> The reason I'm reserving judgment on XTB is that, while it ought to
> ensure devices turn on or off when commanded, I don't see how it would
> help with one of the worst X10 problems, that of devices switching on
> or off when NOT commanded, i.e., after having recognized a code within
> line noise.
>
> Now, if devices required a stronger minimum signal -- that might
> mitigate the problem -- but that's not a centralizable solution such
> as that provided by the XTB-IIR..

I'm happy with UPB in a remodel I recently did, but I knew in advance to
have all the lighting circuits placed on the same phase, along with a
couple of outlets in various places for CIM access. In another house
with random wiring, I have the usual noise and opposed-phase problems. I
have tried the plug-in phase coupler (unsuccessful); I have yet to try a
breaker box phase coupler. I haven't had false commands in either
situation, just lost commands.

Powerline remains a troubled communication medium, but UPB does seem to
be way ahead of X-10.

Steve

--
steve <at> w0x0f <dot> com
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, chip shot in the other, body thoroughly
used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Posted by Russ in San Diego on June 18, 2009, 4:50 pm
Please log in for more thread options
> In article
>
>
>
> > On Jun 9, 10:29=A0am, nob...@whocares.com (Dave Houston) wrote:
>
> > > >I was describing some of my X-10 setup (installed many years ago, wh=
en
> > > >X10.com was heavily promoting the stuff, and you could get tons of i=
t
> > > >REALLY cheap) to a contractor friend. =A0He seemed very interested i=
n
> > > >knowing about it for other customers. =A0I warned him that he probab=
ly
> > > >ought to stay away from selling X-10 to customers, because it's so
> > > >dicey and unreliable. =A0I'm ok with it for my usage, but I wouldn't
> > > >feel comfortable recommending it to a non-hobbyist who can't handle
> > > >the fussiness and frustration.
>
> > > >Any recommendations as to what's a reasonably priced and reasonably
> > > >reliable equivalent technology these days? =A0Is Insteon significant=
ly
> > > >better than X-10? =A0What else is out there?
>
> > > Insteon reliability is good but it's pricey compared to X10 (and it s=
eems to
> > > be a bmoving target with new devices being introduced to 'fix' earlie=
r
> > > flaws. You should also look at UPB (again, pricey) and ZWave (I'm not
> > > impressed). You should also be aware of Jeff Volp's XTB devices - I h=
aven't
> > > kept up with revisions - they boost X10 signals to about 25-30Vpp whi=
ch most
> > > who've tried it say makes X10 nearly 100% reliable.
>
> > Thanks for the summary! =A0I hadn't been aware of the XTB stuff, and it
> > looks pretty handy for my purposes. =A0I'll pass along the information
> > on Insteon, UPB, and ZWave.
>
> > The reason I'm reserving judgment on XTB is that, while it ought to
> > ensure devices turn on or off when commanded, I don't see how it would
> > help with one of the worst X10 problems, that of devices switching on
> > or off when NOT commanded, i.e., after having recognized a code within
> > line noise.
>
> > Now, if devices required a stronger minimum signal -- that might
> > mitigate the problem -- but that's not a centralizable solution such
> > as that provided by the XTB-IIR..
>
> I'm happy with UPB in a remodel I recently did, but I knew in advance to
> have all the lighting circuits placed on the same phase, along with a
> couple of outlets in various places for CIM access. In another house
> with random wiring, I have the usual noise and opposed-phase problems. I
> have tried the plug-in phase coupler (unsuccessful); I have yet to try a
> breaker box phase coupler. I haven't had false commands in either
> situation, just lost commands.
>
> Powerline remains a troubled communication medium, but UPB does seem to
> be way ahead of X-10.
>
> Steve
>
> --
> steve <at> w0x0f <dot> com
> "Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
> arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
> skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, chip shot in the other, body tho=
roughly
> used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"


While looking into UPB, I found my way over to SmartHome again (a UPB
outlet), and noticed that they seem to be pushing Insteon pretty
heavily. Any consensus on it? SmartHome seems to be claiming that
it's most reliable of any of the technologies, while cheaper than UPB
(although more expensive than X10).

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