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How do I avoid Contractor nickel and diming me? orangele2003nut@yahoo.com 09-25-2006
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Posted by orangele2003nut@yahoo.com on September 25, 2006, 7:15 pm
I found a local contractor to build a deck for me out of a imported
exotic hardwood (ipe). The project involved removing an existing deck
and rebuilding it. He did seem to be very knowledgeable and
enthusiastic. He quoted me a price (labor only) approximately 70%
more than two other contractors because he did his research and knew
that this wood is difficult to work with. The suppliers of the wood
estimate labor costs approximately 50% higher than using a traditional
deck wood, so I did not think his estimate was totally unreasonable.
The other two contractors have never heard of ipe wood, and I believe
simply ignorant of the difficulty in working with this EXTREMELY hard
dense wood (all screws and holes must be predrilled, and cannot hammer
through this wood). I accepted his bid without haggling, and I told
him that I expected that he was a master craftsman, and I expected that
he is an expert, and that is why I would pay him top dollar. He
quoted me a time estimate of 2 1/2 weeks to complete the deck.

Since beginning he has taken every opportunity to charge me extra labor
costs. Firstly, on demolition of the existing deck, he said that the
existing deck posts were deeper than anticipated, and so he charged me
rental for a larger jack hammer than he had, and charged me $650 extra
($65 an hour for extra 10 hours). I told him that I was not pleased,
but agreed for him to proceed. I do not know exactly how much EXTRA
time (beyond what he expected and should have been covered by the
original bid) but I seriously doubt it was 10 hours.

Then when I discovered that the wood supplier would not unload the
delivery truck, he said he wanted to unload it, and that he needed a
fork-lift (approximately 6000 lbs total weight of wood). The
supplier told me that there were about 5 batches of wood. I told him
to go ahead, and that I could not imagine that it would take more than
an hour to unload the truck using a fork-lift. Well after this
occured, he charged me 2 1/2 hrs labor (this time he charged $75 an
hour) time. When I said that I could not understand how it could have
taken 2 1/2 hours to unload with a fork-lift, he said he examined each
piece of wood, and that is why it took that length of time. When I
complained, he asked if I wanted him to just accept lousy wood, I told
him I felt that examining the building materials should included in his
original labor bid. But I went ahead and paid him.

He has worked on the project a total of 4 days, and the posts, and
joists are all up and now he says he will be finished within a week.

I find it very f**ked-up, that he takes every opportunity to charge me
additional labor costs when he says a particular step is taking longer
than anticipated, but when and if he finishes the project in less than
half the time he said it would, why should not I request a 50% return
of the labor costs he bid. Obviously, the overall labor time is way
less than he proposed to me, why am paying for extra labor costs. Do
all contractors pay this game, and how can I prevent this in the future?


Posted by on September 25, 2006, 7:32 pm
Just say no!!!!! If you think a contractor is milking you and
charging extra just say no. Remind them of the contract you signed
and his estimate. If he balks remind him that he is not going to be
paid until deck is X% finshed and then final payment is made upon
finishing,. You do have a signed contract right? You did check
references? If you keep letting it go the deck will cost a lot more
than the estimate.

orangele2003nut@yahoo.com wrote:
> I found a local contractor to build a deck for me out of a imported
> exotic hardwood (ipe). The project involved removing an existing deck
> and rebuilding it. He did seem to be very knowledgeable and
> enthusiastic. He quoted me a price (labor only) approximately 70%
> more than two other contractors because he did his research and knew
> that this wood is difficult to work with. The suppliers of the wood
> estimate labor costs approximately 50% higher than using a traditional
> deck wood, so I did not think his estimate was totally unreasonable.
> The other two contractors have never heard of ipe wood, and I believe
> simply ignorant of the difficulty in working with this EXTREMELY hard
> dense wood (all screws and holes must be predrilled, and cannot hammer
> through this wood). I accepted his bid without haggling, and I told
> him that I expected that he was a master craftsman, and I expected that
> he is an expert, and that is why I would pay him top dollar. He
> quoted me a time estimate of 2 1/2 weeks to complete the deck.
>
> Since beginning he has taken every opportunity to charge me extra labor
> costs. Firstly, on demolition of the existing deck, he said that the
> existing deck posts were deeper than anticipated, and so he charged me
> rental for a larger jack hammer than he had, and charged me $650 extra
> ($65 an hour for extra 10 hours). I told him that I was not pleased,
> but agreed for him to proceed. I do not know exactly how much EXTRA
> time (beyond what he expected and should have been covered by the
> original bid) but I seriously doubt it was 10 hours.
>
> Then when I discovered that the wood supplier would not unload the
> delivery truck, he said he wanted to unload it, and that he needed a
> fork-lift (approximately 6000 lbs total weight of wood). The
> supplier told me that there were about 5 batches of wood. I told him
> to go ahead, and that I could not imagine that it would take more than
> an hour to unload the truck using a fork-lift. Well after this
> occured, he charged me 2 1/2 hrs labor (this time he charged $75 an
> hour) time. When I said that I could not understand how it could have
> taken 2 1/2 hours to unload with a fork-lift, he said he examined each
> piece of wood, and that is why it took that length of time. When I
> complained, he asked if I wanted him to just accept lousy wood, I told
> him I felt that examining the building materials should included in his
> original labor bid. But I went ahead and paid him.
>
> He has worked on the project a total of 4 days, and the posts, and
> joists are all up and now he says he will be finished within a week.
>
> I find it very f**ked-up, that he takes every opportunity to charge me
> additional labor costs when he says a particular step is taking longer
> than anticipated, but when and if he finishes the project in less than
> half the time he said it would, why should not I request a 50% return
> of the labor costs he bid. Obviously, the overall labor time is way
> less than he proposed to me, why am paying for extra labor costs. Do
> all contractors pay this game, and how can I prevent this in the future?


Posted by on September 25, 2006, 7:56 pm
you definately took it in both ends on this one, he had you over a
barell and knew it. you should have made sure the lumber yard was going
to unload it upfront, I do that all the time when I'm not buying
through home depot (and I will only buy wood from the main area
distributer for home depot, the rest of them screw you around here).
the rest of it was B.S. and should have been covered by the original
bid, thats why you got it in the first place. the only changes to the
original should come from mistakes you made not because the contractor
didn't figure on something. (changing from the plan is a good way to
rack up your bill).

Empressess #124457


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orangele2003nut@yahoo.com wrote:
> I found a local contractor to build a deck for me out of a imported
> exotic hardwood (ipe). The project involved removing an existing deck
> and rebuilding it. He did seem to be very knowledgeable and
> enthusiastic. He quoted me a price (labor only) approximately 70%
> more than two other contractors because he did his research and knew
> that this wood is difficult to work with. The suppliers of the wood
> estimate labor costs approximately 50% higher than using a traditional
> deck wood, so I did not think his estimate was totally unreasonable.
> The other two contractors have never heard of ipe wood, and I believe
> simply ignorant of the difficulty in working with this EXTREMELY hard
> dense wood (all screws and holes must be predrilled, and cannot hammer
> through this wood). I accepted his bid without haggling, and I told
> him that I expected that he was a master craftsman, and I expected that
> he is an expert, and that is why I would pay him top dollar. He
> quoted me a time estimate of 2 1/2 weeks to complete the deck.
>
> Since beginning he has taken every opportunity to charge me extra labor
> costs. Firstly, on demolition of the existing deck, he said that the
> existing deck posts were deeper than anticipated, and so he charged me
> rental for a larger jack hammer than he had, and charged me $650 extra
> ($65 an hour for extra 10 hours). I told him that I was not pleased,
> but agreed for him to proceed. I do not know exactly how much EXTRA
> time (beyond what he expected and should have been covered by the
> original bid) but I seriously doubt it was 10 hours.
>
> Then when I discovered that the wood supplier would not unload the
> delivery truck, he said he wanted to unload it, and that he needed a
> fork-lift (approximately 6000 lbs total weight of wood). The
> supplier told me that there were about 5 batches of wood. I told him
> to go ahead, and that I could not imagine that it would take more than
> an hour to unload the truck using a fork-lift. Well after this
> occured, he charged me 2 1/2 hrs labor (this time he charged $75 an
> hour) time. When I said that I could not understand how it could have
> taken 2 1/2 hours to unload with a fork-lift, he said he examined each
> piece of wood, and that is why it took that length of time. When I
> complained, he asked if I wanted him to just accept lousy wood, I told
> him I felt that examining the building materials should included in his
> original labor bid. But I went ahead and paid him.
>
> He has worked on the project a total of 4 days, and the posts, and
> joists are all up and now he says he will be finished within a week.
>
> I find it very f**ked-up, that he takes every opportunity to charge me
> additional labor costs when he says a particular step is taking longer
> than anticipated, but when and if he finishes the project in less than
> half the time he said it would, why should not I request a 50% return
> of the labor costs he bid. Obviously, the overall labor time is way
> less than he proposed to me, why am paying for extra labor costs. Do
> all contractors pay this game, and how can I prevent this in the future?


Posted by DK on September 25, 2006, 9:49 pm
On 25 Sep 2006 16:15:46 -0700, "orangele2003nut@yahoo.com"

>I found a local contractor to build a deck for me out of a imported
>exotic hardwood (ipe). The project involved removing an existing deck
>and rebuilding it. He did seem to be very knowledgeable and
>enthusiastic. He quoted me a price (labor only) approximately 70%
>more than two other contractors because he did his research and knew
>that this wood is difficult to work with. The suppliers of the wood
>estimate labor costs approximately 50% higher than using a traditional
>deck wood, so I did not think his estimate was totally unreasonable.
>The other two contractors have never heard of ipe wood, and I believe
>simply ignorant of the difficulty in working with this EXTREMELY hard
>dense wood (all screws and holes must be predrilled, and cannot hammer
>through this wood). I accepted his bid without haggling, and I told
>him that I expected that he was a master craftsman, and I expected that
>he is an expert, and that is why I would pay him top dollar. He
>quoted me a time estimate of 2 1/2 weeks to complete the deck.
>
>Since beginning he has taken every opportunity to charge me extra labor
>costs. Firstly, on demolition of the existing deck, he said that the
>existing deck posts were deeper than anticipated, and so he charged me
>rental for a larger jack hammer than he had, and charged me $650 extra
>($65 an hour for extra 10 hours). I told him that I was not pleased,
>but agreed for him to proceed. I do not know exactly how much EXTRA
>time (beyond what he expected and should have been covered by the
>original bid) but I seriously doubt it was 10 hours.
>
>Then when I discovered that the wood supplier would not unload the
>delivery truck, he said he wanted to unload it, and that he needed a
>fork-lift (approximately 6000 lbs total weight of wood). The
>supplier told me that there were about 5 batches of wood. I told him
>to go ahead, and that I could not imagine that it would take more than
>an hour to unload the truck using a fork-lift. Well after this
>occured, he charged me 2 1/2 hrs labor (this time he charged $75 an
>hour) time. When I said that I could not understand how it could have
>taken 2 1/2 hours to unload with a fork-lift, he said he examined each
>piece of wood, and that is why it took that length of time. When I
>complained, he asked if I wanted him to just accept lousy wood, I told
>him I felt that examining the building materials should included in his
>original labor bid. But I went ahead and paid him.
>
>He has worked on the project a total of 4 days, and the posts, and
>joists are all up and now he says he will be finished within a week.
>
>I find it very f**ked-up, that he takes every opportunity to charge me
>additional labor costs when he says a particular step is taking longer
>than anticipated, but when and if he finishes the project in less than
>half the time he said it would, why should not I request a 50% return
>of the labor costs he bid. Obviously, the overall labor time is way
>less than he proposed to me, why am paying for extra labor costs. Do
>all contractors pay this game, and how can I prevent this in the future?

No. You are being had.

However, in the real world, you have to ask whether you are better
off finishing the job by patronizing him or proceeding with legal
threats and even suing. How firm is your contract?





Posted by Kirby on September 25, 2006, 10:12 pm

"orangele2003nut@yahoo.com" wrote

> Do all contractors pay this game, and how can I prevent this in the
> future?

Sounds as if you hired a handyman, hoping to get a professional job.

You do not mention a contract, and though assumption is not a good thing
for me to do, I assume you do not have a contract.

You mention "When I said that I could not understand how it could have
taken 2 1/2 hours to unload with a fork-lift, he said he examined each
piece of wood, and that is why it took that length of time. When I
complained, he asked if I wanted him to just accept lousy wood, I told
him I felt that examining the building materials should included in his
original labor bid."
A professional will inspect, and crown wood before installing, any
reputable supplier will honor rejects. You don't inspect while the delivery
driver is still there.

You can prevent being bent over, by having someone familiar with contracts,
make sure all parties are protected, especially you.

Additional work above the work spelled out in a contract, is always extra.
Cost factors should be agreed to, before signing the contract.





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